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rcroane 
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Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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Hi folks,
I'm thinking about adding headlight relays to my 6v '65 bug. I have H4 headlights. I've searched tons of threads but can't seem to find any instructions on how to do this. I saw a reference to putting them in the headlight buckets, but I need help in understanding how to wire them in.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Busstom
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Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3853
Location: San Jose, CA
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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Thanks. Actually the 6v relays are easy to find. WW sells one. Appreciate the link. Hoping to find something that is more specific to my situation and dumbs it down for me. Electrics are not my strength. In other words, where do I put the relays and how do I run the wires?
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Meiang
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Joined: September 27, 2016
Posts: 656
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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If you are going to the trouble of running a power cable from the battery to the dashboard area, I would also run an earth cable from the battery similarly and put an earth post behind the dash. You can use this earth post for a multitude of purposes and not have to worry about voltage drops on the return side of a circuit.
If you want to do the job really properly use a Blue Sea 5025 fuse block. This has a negative bus also and makes wiring really easy. Blue Sea electrical power components are about the best you can buy.
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Sharp64
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Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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My googlefu found this.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=646423
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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Thanks for this. I like the approach posted by MMcarthy.
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Sharp64
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Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| rcroane wrote: |
Thanks for this. I like the approach posted by MMcarthy. |
I also saw a page come up for Jbugs with some options. Seemed to confirm the ones in the link I posted.
I'm watching your threads to see how it goes. I had considered adding relays and such to my 60, but after looking at some things, I just went to 12v. I know the whole schmiel about 6v being as good as 12v, and I get the "science" behind it, but in the real world it doesn't seem to hold true at times. At least not from what I have seen.
Good luck.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
| rcroane wrote: |
Thanks for this. I like the approach posted by MMcarthy. |
I also saw a page come up for Jbugs with some options. Seemed to confirm the ones in the link I posted.
I'm watching your threads to see how it goes. I had considered adding relays and such to my 60, but after looking at some things, I just went to 12v. I know the whole schmiel about 6v being as good as 12v, and I get the "science" behind it, but in the real world it doesn't seem to hold true at times. At least not from what I have seen.
Good luck. |
Thanks. My 6v system works pretty well and I'm usually a "keep it stock" guy. But, modern technology like relays, electronic signal flashers, and LED brake/tail lights are out of sight and easily reversible. I just added a relay for my horn and for the first time it works with the lights on!
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Sharp64
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Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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I get the sentiment. Good luck man.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.
I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.
Link...
https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223
I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.
Bug On, Brightly!
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.
I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.
Link...
https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223
I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.
Bug On, Brightly! |
Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections?
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bluebus86
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Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| rcroane wrote: |
| bluebus86 wrote: |
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.
I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.
Link...
https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223
I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.
Bug On, Brightly! |
Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections? |
I used the stock headlight wires in the bucket to trigger the relays. Relays received power thru a one each heavy gage wire ran into the buckets, it was a tight fit getting them in the conduit, but they fit. these wires, four total (left, right, hi, low) cam from battery and have inline fuses near the battery connection on each of the four wires. In the 356 the battery is in the trunk, easy, for the Bug you will want to find a good route from battery for them, or use an existing heavy wire from battery that is in the dash already, and hook up the four fused wires from that one (the existing power wire from battery to light switch can be the power source for the four fused wires) Ground was made at the headlight bucket for the relay trigger.
Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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rcroane
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
| rcroane wrote: |
| bluebus86 wrote: |
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.
I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.
Link...
https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223
I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.
Bug On, Brightly! |
Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections? |
I used the stock headlight wires in the bucket to trigger the relays. Relays received power thru a one each heavy gage wire ran into the buckets, it was a tight fit getting them in the conduit, but they fit. these wires, four total (left, right, hi, low) cam from battery and have inline fuses near the battery connection on each of the four wires. In the 356 the battery is in the trunk, easy, for the Bug you will want to find a good route from battery for them, or use an existing heavy wire from battery that is in the dash already, and hook up the four fused wires from that one (the existing power wire from battery to light switch can be the power source for the four fused wires) Ground was made at the headlight bucket for the relay trigger.
Bug On! |
Thanks. Did you happen to see the link provided by Sharp64 above. Curious what you think of MMCARTHY's solution? Looks like he is putting the relay before the floor dimmer switch. Can't say I understand the wiring description.
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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If all you want is a relay for the headlights, just re-wire it like the '66 model year, and add the headlight dip button to your turn signal stalk. The holes in the stalk are already drilled and tapped for you, since this was an option on some cars already.
Not only is this more convenient, you add the high beam "flash to pass" option, and have reduces voltage drops using the relay. |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| rcroane wrote: |
| bluebus86 wrote: |
| rcroane wrote: |
| bluebus86 wrote: |
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.
I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.
Link...
https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223
I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.
Bug On, Brightly! |
Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections? |
I used the stock headlight wires in the bucket to trigger the relays. Relays received power thru a one each heavy gage wire ran into the buckets, it was a tight fit getting them in the conduit, but they fit. these wires, four total (left, right, hi, low) cam from battery and have inline fuses near the battery connection on each of the four wires. In the 356 the battery is in the trunk, easy, for the Bug you will want to find a good route from battery for them, or use an existing heavy wire from battery that is in the dash already, and hook up the four fused wires from that one (the existing power wire from battery to light switch can be the power source for the four fused wires) Ground was made at the headlight bucket for the relay trigger.
Bug On! |
Thanks. Did you happen to see the link provided by Sharp64 above. Curious what you think of MMCARTHY's solution? Looks like he is putting the relay before the floor dimmer switch. Can't say I understand the wiring description. |
yes you can use 2 rather than 4 relays. For my car I wanted to hide the relays in the buckets and minimize number of wires, so 4 relays allowed me to not have to run a pair of wires between the buckets. Had i used 2 relays in one bucket, that bucket would need three additional wires run thru the conduit, with 4 relays total, ie. 2 relays in each bucket only two additional wires are run thru that tiny conduit to each bucket.
Another advantage to 4 relays is that a single failure will cause only one side, and one beam to fail. with 2 relays a single failure and you lose either both hi, or both lo beams. Note VW and most other car makers have been using four separate circuits for headlamps, four separate fuses, one each for left hi, left lo, right high, right lo.
also putting relays nearest the lights does increase voltage too the bulbs, if the relays are before the hi/lo beam switch, then you suffer from what ever voltage drop is across that hi/lo beam switch. If relays are mounted after that switch, then you bypass that voltage drop.
Bug On!
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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rcroane
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Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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Thanks, Bluebus. I really like the idea of hiding the relays in the bucket. What gauge wire would you recommend to power the relays?
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bluebus86
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Meiang
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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The simple way is to install VW kit part number 111 998 113 which includes the 6 volt relay and indicator stalk button.
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rcroane
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Joined: January 03, 2013
Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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| Meiang wrote: |
The simple way is to install VW kit part number 111 998 113 which includes the 6 volt relay and indicator stalk button.
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Thanks....want to sell me that one?
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rcroane
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Posts: 2000
Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system |
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Thanks, all. I've decided to go the route of installing the '66 style switch and relay. Parts on order. May reach out for some installation guidance when they arrive.
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