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YDBD
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 891
Location: Bavaria, Germany
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 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| The answer is always 30 more than you have. |
I believe the answer is 42.
I"m running a little below 100 in my buggy, wish I had a little more for passing as most of my driving is two lane roads and passing trucks. Driving over 70 doesn't seem fun any more and get a little white knuckled doing it. I"m in a fiberglass box always enters my mind.
_________________
'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing" |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:29 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| FullFender wrote: |
More hp, more fun
and more problems |
Well, I found myself constrained to driving a "modern" 1200 (Mexico) for a while, and I have very fond memories...every drive is a Grand Prix as you strive to extract every single foot-lb just to try to keep up with modern traffic. Your timing and knowledge of shift points is crucial. The sense of satisfaction when you manage to overtake something is priceless  !
And you really learn how to get the absolute most out of your chassis/brakes, because that's all you've got to use against the "opposition". Skinny tires HELP.
But less problems? no, not really...  |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6023
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Glenn,
have to admire the WRX and fact they stole the bug engine design to do it.
The problem is the tuners see my car and actually want to race. Gets dangerous.
Brad, I know lowering the back would help over 80 but, not going to go there If I don't have to and, love the way the car looks, besides the fact I am afraid of speed bumps and ripping out my engine.
Dale yes power to weigh is the key, but as you less weight more fighting the forces of nature as you increase your speed to be in control.
Freebird, we are much better drivers for all you mentioned. After my bug was aligned the machanic, says" that car really moves but you better get your brakes fixed" I have 4 wheel Discs and they are fine. I said when was the last time you drove a car without power brakes and steering???
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| A Berg 5 speed like Glen has really changes the drivability a lot more than increasing the HP. |
Dave, after my 1904 failed I put a stock 1600 in while the 2180 was being built. It was still very drivable and had some nice acceleration.
I bet it was the only time a Berg 5 was mated to a stock engine.
| nextgen wrote: |
Glenn,
have to admire the WRX and fact they stole the bug engine design to do it.
The problem is the tuners see my car and actually want to race. Gets dangerous. |
I've had a fair share of Civic owners want to race at a stop light. Years ago i'd hit the line lock and smoke the tires for a few seconds and then ask how much money do they want to loose. Now i just ignore them.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Steve Arndt
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 1780
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:12 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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If you haven't already replaced the spring plate bushings and aligned the rear end do it. That makes a massive difference at high speed.
I agree on the rake, it will be squirly with the butt up and nose down.
_________________
Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project |
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Boolean
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Totally happy with the power? Around 700 hp.
_________________
I strive for perfection. Excellence will not be tolerated!
Build thread here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529379 |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6023
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Steve, I actually did replace the Bushings but left it the same height. 90 and below the car is fine and as mentioned any lower and I fear damaging the engiene also I like the look.
Boolean, you are so honest that am going to return the Crown Jewels, the Speed boat had a T-4 engine, I thought that clue would give me away.
SWEDISH POLICE THE ABOVE IS A JOKE !!!!
_________________
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The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
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I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6023
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Very nice, guys he sneaked up on me with that one!!! I did not see it coming like all the WRX's
Coil good job.
Ok so you like more power-- BUT how does it drive at 100 mph, serious
It must weight more ( how much ) water etc and that should help keep keeping it down. Tires etc
LOOK HE EVEN HAS THE SUBIE Emblem in the engine compartment.
Who would do that?
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| power is like money.never seems to be enough...well something like that any way.enough is almost what you want, but you still want more...and more is always something to strive for.so in the end...there is never enough. but at some point you will of had enough of it...then comes the relapse. |
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FullFender
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2014
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| nextgen wrote: |
Steve, I actually did replace the Bushings but left it the same height. 90 and below the car is fine and as mentioned any lower and I fear damaging the engiene also I like the look.
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I've gone a few splines down as to where I will knock off the header if I am not careful
Unless you're going Mach 4 over a speed bump you'll be fine |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
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I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Do you seriously think a Beetle with a Sti engine will hold it's own with a new STi? There's a lot more than just adding power. The suspension, all wheel drive drivetrain and computer controls will allow the STi to out handle the Beetle.
if you don't think so, you should research how the Porsche 550 Spyder outran Ferrari's with V12s in the late 50s.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| gprudenciop wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
, |
I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Do you seriously think a Beetle with a Sti engine will hold it's own with a new STi?
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Yup!! Trust me I have checked!!!
It's not just about the motor it has to be everything working together. Subarugears transmission,in the front added castor, rack and pinion steering(bump steer is a killer),the right oil shocks(narrowed),sway bar,disk brakes with dual master cylinders for front/back adjustment,28mm torsions with 26 5/8 length for rebound softness,flipped trailing arms,gas shocks.sway bar and lowered a bit to help at speed.it makes it very stable and I am very happy with the power and don't need any more. I do miss having the 36hp motor and enjoying the view and not being in a hurry taking time to stop and smell the roses.if I could do it all over again I would have left the 36hp motor in..
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Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness..
Last edited by gprudenciop on Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
Yup!! Trust me I have checked!!!
It's not just about the motor it has to be everything working together. Subarugears transmission,in the front added castor, rack and pinion steering,the right oil shocks(narrowed),sway bar,disk brakes with dual master cylinders for front/back adjustment,28mm torsions with 26 5/8 length for rebound softness,flipped trailing arms,gas shocks.sway bar and lowered a bit to help at speed.it makes it very stable and I am very happy with the power and don't need any more. I do miss having the 36hp motor and enjoying the view and not being in a hurry taking time to stop and smell the roses. |
I'm not trying to disrespect your car, but my 74 Beetle has quite a bit of suspension mods along with a 2180 and Berg 5. And i've driven a 2018 STI and there's no comparison to the handling.
My 2016 Impreza was totaled last November and I was seriously considering getting a STi to replace it. The dealership lent me a 2018 for a weekend. The car was a blast, i could justify the added cost to purchase, but couldn't justify the added cost of fuel and maint. I keep cars for a long time and figured a STi with 200,000+ miles might be a money pit.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:57 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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If we are talking about handling than yes I agree the sti with its all wheel/suspension is superior.
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Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| 70-90hp in stock trim would be nice. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| If we are talking about handling than yes I agree the sti with its all wheel/suspension is superior. |
That's the whole point of the STi.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6023
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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"power is like money.never seems to be enough...well something like that any way.enough is almost what you want, but you still want more...and more is always something to strive for.so in the end...there is never enough. but at some point you will of had enough of it...then comes the relapse. "
Mark Tucker, -- Mark the philosopher -- That was heavy, very profound, !!!! ha!!
I had to read that 4 times!!!!!
Back to the Subie question.
"Ok so you like more power-- BUT how does it drive at 100 mph, serious
It must weight more ( how much ) water etc and that should help keep keeping it down. Tires etc "
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
, |
I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Nice Job! Considering a STI is 1,300lbs heavier then your car, I bet you can smoke them in a straight line pretty easy! (STI's weigh 3,300lbs)
With all ur suspension mods, and being so much lighter, I bet you can embarrass some sti owners in the twisties also. |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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To answer at 100 mph it's ok not bad. I have relocated the battery and everything to the front for better distribution also the radiator and water up front.as for tires I'm on 17s and run all weathers and they do ok.this is my work car and it runs at 70mph in the rain/winter. I take it down for three weeks in the summer for maintenance and to get it ready for winter...
And the ones that make me laugh are the charger owners.they can't believe I beat them so they race me again but I normally run 18 psi with just my water/air intercooler so second time I table switch to 25psi spraying meth... you should see their faces or not cause they turn off or slow down.....
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