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My 67 Squareback
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

You're missing the sled tins #21 & #22

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old_man
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

I'm definitely missing 3&4 and 21&22. I think I am also missing 11&12 but I am not sure where or now they exactly fit.

On the plus side I got the first muffler nut lose and the heat exchanger off. On the down side the second one is cross threaded and has what looks like a muffler goo on the threads.
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

10 & 11 are for early cars that have removable front tins. Later cars (after 63, IIRC) don't have these tins as they're part of the top cover tin.

3 & 4: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1506913

21 & 22 are going to be slightly harder to find.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

ataraxia wrote:
10 & 11 are for early cars that have removable front tins. Later cars (after 63, IIRC) don't have these tins as they're part of the top cover tin.

3 & 4: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1506913

21 & 22 are going to be slightly harder to find.


That would explain why I couldn't figure out where 10&11 go. Thanks for finding those. I think I saw a set or two of the sled tins as well in the classifieds.

I am trying to get a list of all the used parts I needs so that hopefully one of the bigger dealers can supply me with all of it and I can save on shipping.

I took off one of the drums just to see the condition of the brakes.


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Shoes look like they have plenty of life left. I hope the cylinders wake up after being not used for a long time. Unfortunately it looks like the back of the hub doesn't have enough thickness to get redrilled to 5X130, so I may have to shelve the cookie cutter idea for a while.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Different part diagrams use different numbering, so be careful mixing the two numbers up!

Do you know if the engine was run much with the tins missing? Warped cylinders and fried valves could be the result.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:

Do you know if the engine was run much with the tins missing? Warped cylinders and fried valves could be the result.


My understanding on the history is that it is a fresh rebuild (500mi at the most on it) and then it just sat there for a good decade. I don't know if it was run with out the tins much. It also didn't have the muffler on it, I doubt the ran it with out the muffler.

Speaking of the muffler. I managed to get the two heat exchangers off those nuts. Sadly I think one of the nuts and the corresponding heat exchanger threads are no longer good. I guess that's why someone had held it together with muffler goo.


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Good.

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Not good.

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Good on the left, not good on the right.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Yup, those fine threads are pretty fragile. Used ones come up in the classifieds regularly.

I use anti-seize on those threads upon reassembly. I also check that a single copper crush ring takes up the gap. I've had to use TWO rings stacked on some of them, else they rattle and leak. The final tightening is done with the muffler installed and all connections fitted loosely first. This removes stress that can loosen it later.

I also found they need retightening after running 100 miles or so, maybe another at 500 miles. I get use out of that special large thin wrench!
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old_man
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

I'm hoping I can save the threads on that nut. If not it looks like I need another muffler. I'm sure they are cheap and plentiful but being up here shipping always kills me.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
I'm hoping I can save the threads on that nut. If not it looks like I need another muffler. I'm sure they are cheap and plentiful but being up here shipping always kills me.


No, they are not cheap or plentiful.
You might want to contact Jim Adney (send him an e-mail at; [email protected] ), as he does have mufflers and parts, but isn't cheap. He also does parts rebuilding (like master cylinders, caliper rebuilding and such, but I don't have his list of rebuilding services handy). He does have an ad in the Classifieds though.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

BSQUARE wrote:
old_man wrote:
BSQUARE wrote:


It looks like those holes would line up with a VWOA dealer accessory roof rack.



I was looking at those earlier and it did sort of look like it could match. So now I either have to find one or plug the holes.


Hard to tell from the photo angles - but, it looks like the front holes don't line up with the door gap. There's a roof support piece (above the headliner) that's centered with the door gap which should take the weight of the rack and cargo, instead of the sheet metal roof; while the hatch hinge support takes the weight of the rear. If the front mount holes aren't in line with the door gap, I'd patch them up; otherwise you'd be risking denting the roof if you carry any cargo on the rack.


I agree, in that I'd patch them/fill them in. I don't think those holes line up with the dealer rack (posted above) either. I think it had some sort of 1 off rack due to the "foot" pattern.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:


I agree, in that I'd patch them/fill them in. I don't think those holes line up with the dealer rack (posted above) either. I think it had some sort of 1 off rack due to the "foot" pattern.


I actually have a roof rack on the way so I will find out in a week or two. The holes actually look like they line up. Not a lot of roof racks out there have a side by side screw holes. They are about 2-3mm behind the roof 'ribs'.

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Thanks for the help with the muffler. I basically have 3 options I think.
-1) Try to clean up the threads on the nut and buy a new to me heat exchanger
-2) Do what one of the POs did and hold the two exisiting pieces together with muffler goo
-3) Buy the cheap exhaust header system from cip1.ca and not have any heat.

I really don't like option 3 because I would like to keep defogging capability.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

great car, glad you got it and created a new post Very Happy

ISP West does have 5x130 rear hubs, but they are very expensive.

There are aftermarket 5x130 rear disc kits as well

front is as simple as new rotors http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-6742
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Keep in mind those fine threads are not the primary sealing area... that's the end of the tube and the HE pocket where the copper crush ring is sandwiched. All it has to do is hold it in place against exhaust pressure. A replacement HE and a careful wire-brushing of the muffler threads may be all you need.

Goo won't help it stay in place, and if it's leaking past the crush ring then you may have to resort to goo or even welding it in place, neither of which allows for later separation.

I expect a new small rear HE is all you need to get it sorted.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:


I agree, in that I'd patch them/fill them in. I don't think those holes line up with the dealer rack (posted above) either. I think it had some sort of 1 off rack due to the "foot" pattern.


I actually have a roof rack on the way so I will find out in a week or two. The holes actually look like they line up. Not a lot of roof racks out there have a side by side screw holes. They are about 2-3mm behind the roof 'ribs'.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Thanks for the help with the muffler. I basically have 3 options I think.
-1) Try to clean up the threads on the nut and buy a new to me heat exchanger
-2) Do what one of the POs did and hold the two exisiting pieces together with muffler goo
-3) Buy the cheap exhaust header system from cip1.ca and not have any heat.

I really don't like option 3 because I would like to keep defogging capability.


I think I have one of those racks out back. If I remember right, it uses 2 screws (in line front to rear) for each corner. Although, I think the aluminum strips (grid like pattern) actually screw to the roof as well (why I never installed it on anything).

Option #1 is probably a good bet.
#2 can work too, but I'd try to get it to screw together first.
#3 will not leave you without heat, as the small HE's are "pre-heaters" due to their size. Don't get me wrong, they do help provide some heat, just not like you're thinking. With the small HE's in place, you have to watch where you put rubber stuff like sneakers, as they can melt when the heat is on. Shocked
I think you might have a harder time finding the copper washer/sealing ring for the connection of the muffler to small HE's. Russ used to use old thermocouples from hot water heaters to make that ring, using an angled cut on both ends so they would overlap and squeeze together and seal when tightened. Being soft copper, it made them easier to shape and form, plus thick enough to seal.
Just a heads up, and I hope this helps.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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old_man
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:


Option #1 is probably a good bet.
#2 can work too, but I'd try to get it to screw together first.
#3 will not leave you without heat, as the small HE's are "pre-heaters" due to their size. Don't get me wrong, they do help provide some heat, just not like you're thinking. With the small HE's in place, you have to watch where you put rubber stuff like sneakers, as they can melt when the heat is on. Shocked
I think you might have a harder time finding the copper washer/sealing ring for the connection of the muffler to small HE's. Russ used to use old thermocouples from hot water heaters to make that ring, using an angled cut on both ends so they would overlap and squeeze together and seal when tightened. Being soft copper, it made them easier to shape and form, plus thick enough to seal.
Just a heads up, and I hope this helps.


Option 2 meant removing all heat exhangers....everything. Like I said, I don't like that option.

Is this not the copper washer?
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

They fit together as one unit if assembled correctly, so only 8 screws holding them to the roof. The screws are side by side like old man's holes but only 1.25" apart.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:


Option #1 is probably a good bet.
#2 can work too, but I'd try to get it to screw together first.
#3 will not leave you without heat, as the small HE's are "pre-heaters" due to their size. Don't get me wrong, they do help provide some heat, just not like you're thinking. With the small HE's in place, you have to watch where you put rubber stuff like sneakers, as they can melt when the heat is on. Shocked
I think you might have a harder time finding the copper washer/sealing ring for the connection of the muffler to small HE's. Russ used to use old thermocouples from hot water heaters to make that ring, using an angled cut on both ends so they would overlap and squeeze together and seal when tightened. Being soft copper, it made them easier to shape and form, plus thick enough to seal.
Just a heads up, and I hope this helps.


Option 2 meant removing all heat exhangers....everything. Like I said, I don't like that option.

Is this not the copper washer?


Yup, that's the copper washer you'll need.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
They fit together as one unit if assembled correctly, so only 8 screws holding them to the roof. The screws are side by side like old man's holes but only 1.25" apart.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


OK Mike, maybe I'm thinking of the other style t-3 dealer rack.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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old_man
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
They fit together as one unit if assembled correctly, so only 8 screws holding them to the roof. The screws are side by side like old man's holes but only 1.25" apart.



Mine are that as well. I also have a couple wider spaced holes in the middle. It would seem to match up where the two screws are missing in the forward - centre pieces. What kind of screws did they use for the feet?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback Reply with quote

Lucky you were able to remove the 46 mm nut. Mine not so lucky, either of them. When and if I do they will be for sale unless someone wants to buy them in this condition.
The copper washers are available from IPSWest or Jbugs.
https://www.jbugs.com/product/341298003.html


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