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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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You're missing the sled tins #21 & #22
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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I'm definitely missing 3&4 and 21&22. I think I am also missing 11&12 but I am not sure where or now they exactly fit.
On the plus side I got the first muffler nut lose and the heat exchanger off. On the down side the second one is cross threaded and has what looks like a muffler goo on the threads. |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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10 & 11 are for early cars that have removable front tins. Later cars (after 63, IIRC) don't have these tins as they're part of the top cover tin.
3 & 4: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1506913
21 & 22 are going to be slightly harder to find. |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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That would explain why I couldn't figure out where 10&11 go. Thanks for finding those. I think I saw a set or two of the sled tins as well in the classifieds.
I am trying to get a list of all the used parts I needs so that hopefully one of the bigger dealers can supply me with all of it and I can save on shipping.
I took off one of the drums just to see the condition of the brakes.
Shoes look like they have plenty of life left. I hope the cylinders wake up after being not used for a long time. Unfortunately it looks like the back of the hub doesn't have enough thickness to get redrilled to 5X130, so I may have to shelve the cookie cutter idea for a while. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Different part diagrams use different numbering, so be careful mixing the two numbers up!
Do you know if the engine was run much with the tins missing? Warped cylinders and fried valves could be the result. |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Do you know if the engine was run much with the tins missing? Warped cylinders and fried valves could be the result. |
My understanding on the history is that it is a fresh rebuild (500mi at the most on it) and then it just sat there for a good decade. I don't know if it was run with out the tins much. It also didn't have the muffler on it, I doubt the ran it with out the muffler.
Speaking of the muffler. I managed to get the two heat exchangers off those nuts. Sadly I think one of the nuts and the corresponding heat exchanger threads are no longer good. I guess that's why someone had held it together with muffler goo.
Good.
Not good.
Good on the left, not good on the right. |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Yup, those fine threads are pretty fragile. Used ones come up in the classifieds regularly.
I use anti-seize on those threads upon reassembly. I also check that a single copper crush ring takes up the gap. I've had to use TWO rings stacked on some of them, else they rattle and leak. The final tightening is done with the muffler installed and all connections fitted loosely first. This removes stress that can loosen it later.
I also found they need retightening after running 100 miles or so, maybe another at 500 miles. I get use out of that special large thin wrench! |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| I'm hoping I can save the threads on that nut. If not it looks like I need another muffler. I'm sure they are cheap and plentiful but being up here shipping always kills me. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| I'm hoping I can save the threads on that nut. If not it looks like I need another muffler. I'm sure they are cheap and plentiful but being up here shipping always kills me. |
No, they are not cheap or plentiful.
You might want to contact Jim Adney (send him an e-mail at; [email protected] ), as he does have mufflers and parts, but isn't cheap. He also does parts rebuilding (like master cylinders, caliper rebuilding and such, but I don't have his list of rebuilding services handy). He does have an ad in the Classifieds though.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| BSQUARE wrote: |
| old_man wrote: |
| BSQUARE wrote: |
It looks like those holes would line up with a VWOA dealer accessory roof rack.
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I was looking at those earlier and it did sort of look like it could match. So now I either have to find one or plug the holes. |
Hard to tell from the photo angles - but, it looks like the front holes don't line up with the door gap. There's a roof support piece (above the headliner) that's centered with the door gap which should take the weight of the rack and cargo, instead of the sheet metal roof; while the hatch hinge support takes the weight of the rear. If the front mount holes aren't in line with the door gap, I'd patch them up; otherwise you'd be risking denting the roof if you carry any cargo on the rack. |
I agree, in that I'd patch them/fill them in. I don't think those holes line up with the dealer rack (posted above) either. I think it had some sort of 1 off rack due to the "foot" pattern.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
I agree, in that I'd patch them/fill them in. I don't think those holes line up with the dealer rack (posted above) either. I think it had some sort of 1 off rack due to the "foot" pattern. |
I actually have a roof rack on the way so I will find out in a week or two. The holes actually look like they line up. Not a lot of roof racks out there have a side by side screw holes. They are about 2-3mm behind the roof 'ribs'.
Thanks for the help with the muffler. I basically have 3 options I think.
-1) Try to clean up the threads on the nut and buy a new to me heat exchanger
-2) Do what one of the POs did and hold the two exisiting pieces together with muffler goo
-3) Buy the cheap exhaust header system from cip1.ca and not have any heat.
I really don't like option 3 because I would like to keep defogging capability. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Keep in mind those fine threads are not the primary sealing area... that's the end of the tube and the HE pocket where the copper crush ring is sandwiched. All it has to do is hold it in place against exhaust pressure. A replacement HE and a careful wire-brushing of the muffler threads may be all you need.
Goo won't help it stay in place, and if it's leaking past the crush ring then you may have to resort to goo or even welding it in place, neither of which allows for later separation.
I expect a new small rear HE is all you need to get it sorted. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
I agree, in that I'd patch them/fill them in. I don't think those holes line up with the dealer rack (posted above) either. I think it had some sort of 1 off rack due to the "foot" pattern. |
I actually have a roof rack on the way so I will find out in a week or two. The holes actually look like they line up. Not a lot of roof racks out there have a side by side screw holes. They are about 2-3mm behind the roof 'ribs'.
Thanks for the help with the muffler. I basically have 3 options I think.
-1) Try to clean up the threads on the nut and buy a new to me heat exchanger
-2) Do what one of the POs did and hold the two exisiting pieces together with muffler goo
-3) Buy the cheap exhaust header system from cip1.ca and not have any heat.
I really don't like option 3 because I would like to keep defogging capability. |
I think I have one of those racks out back. If I remember right, it uses 2 screws (in line front to rear) for each corner. Although, I think the aluminum strips (grid like pattern) actually screw to the roof as well (why I never installed it on anything).
Option #1 is probably a good bet.
#2 can work too, but I'd try to get it to screw together first.
#3 will not leave you without heat, as the small HE's are "pre-heaters" due to their size. Don't get me wrong, they do help provide some heat, just not like you're thinking. With the small HE's in place, you have to watch where you put rubber stuff like sneakers, as they can melt when the heat is on. 
I think you might have a harder time finding the copper washer/sealing ring for the connection of the muffler to small HE's. Russ used to use old thermocouples from hot water heaters to make that ring, using an angled cut on both ends so they would overlap and squeeze together and seal when tightened. Being soft copper, it made them easier to shape and form, plus thick enough to seal.
Just a heads up, and I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Option #1 is probably a good bet.
#2 can work too, but I'd try to get it to screw together first.
#3 will not leave you without heat, as the small HE's are "pre-heaters" due to their size. Don't get me wrong, they do help provide some heat, just not like you're thinking. With the small HE's in place, you have to watch where you put rubber stuff like sneakers, as they can melt when the heat is on.
I think you might have a harder time finding the copper washer/sealing ring for the connection of the muffler to small HE's. Russ used to use old thermocouples from hot water heaters to make that ring, using an angled cut on both ends so they would overlap and squeeze together and seal when tightened. Being soft copper, it made them easier to shape and form, plus thick enough to seal.
Just a heads up, and I hope this helps. |
Option 2 meant removing all heat exhangers....everything. Like I said, I don't like that option.
Is this not the copper washer? |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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They fit together as one unit if assembled correctly, so only 8 screws holding them to the roof. The screws are side by side like old man's holes but only 1.25" apart.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Option #1 is probably a good bet.
#2 can work too, but I'd try to get it to screw together first.
#3 will not leave you without heat, as the small HE's are "pre-heaters" due to their size. Don't get me wrong, they do help provide some heat, just not like you're thinking. With the small HE's in place, you have to watch where you put rubber stuff like sneakers, as they can melt when the heat is on.
I think you might have a harder time finding the copper washer/sealing ring for the connection of the muffler to small HE's. Russ used to use old thermocouples from hot water heaters to make that ring, using an angled cut on both ends so they would overlap and squeeze together and seal when tightened. Being soft copper, it made them easier to shape and form, plus thick enough to seal.
Just a heads up, and I hope this helps. |
Option 2 meant removing all heat exhangers....everything. Like I said, I don't like that option.
Is this not the copper washer? |
Yup, that's the copper washer you'll need.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
They fit together as one unit if assembled correctly, so only 8 screws holding them to the roof. The screws are side by side like old man's holes but only 1.25" apart.
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OK Mike, maybe I'm thinking of the other style t-3 dealer rack.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
They fit together as one unit if assembled correctly, so only 8 screws holding them to the roof. The screws are side by side like old man's holes but only 1.25" apart.
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Mine are that as well. I also have a couple wider spaced holes in the middle. It would seem to match up where the two screws are missing in the forward - centre pieces. What kind of screws did they use for the feet? |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Lucky you were able to remove the 46 mm nut. Mine not so lucky, either of them. When and if I do they will be for sale unless someone wants to buy them in this condition.
The copper washers are available from IPSWest or Jbugs.
https://www.jbugs.com/product/341298003.html
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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