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New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!)
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

haha well no wonder the one I have installed currently doesn't seal! It's as flat as my prom date Laughing
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Laughing

At least your horn works!
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Thanks for those photos, I think based on those I have an idea of how it might work. I'll have to play with it and see what works best.
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

OK I think I got this figured out. As ataraxia pointed out, the original vent wing flap seal has a bulb-type profile, as pictured below:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


When looking my old seal earlier I had been under the impression it was some kind of L-shape profile but after removing it today I found that it was the original bulb-type profile, it had just collapsed to become an L-shape. Laughing
Original seal maybe?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After some experimentation with the orientation of the WW repro seal, I think I figured out how it goes:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I tried installing it the other way, with the rounded part facing out toward the vent wing, but the vent wing didn't want to close that way. It took too much effort to try and latch it, I was worried I would break the window if I forced it.

Seems to work nicely the way I installed it. Takes more effort to latch but seems to make a good seal. Of course I would expect it to take more effort to latch given how shot the old seal was. Laughing
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
sjbartnik wrote:


As far as the diaphragm-style pressure plate, it's made by Sachs in Brazil. As I was advised, it did indeed result in a lighter pedal effort. What I didn't expect is that it also offers a more abrupt clutch engagement point. Took a little driving to re-learn how to operate it smoothly. I'm hoping that will soften a bit as the diaphragm springs get some wear cycles on them.



Add a shim at the transmission end of the Bowden tube to increase sag a bit- this will help a lot.


Just to follow up, I finally got a chance to tackle this job today. It was a real bear to break the bowden tube loose from the bracket on the transmission. A lot of PB Blaster plus some elbow grease with the big vice grips finally broke it loose. Then there was a lot of further wiggling and PB Blaster to actually get it to move out of the bracket.

I added two washers to the Bowden tube - there were no washers at all before I started and the cable run didn't have much sag as a result. With two washers I measured it out at the upper end of the spec for sag, about 1.7 inches.

I then installed a new clutch cable boot from WW because mine was missing. Applied anti-seize to the part of the bowden tube that goes through the bracket and put it all back together.

Tram was right on the money, clutch action is much improved and the take-up isn't so abrupt. I took a little test drive around the neighborhood and it's much smoother.
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Are you referring to the rubber bit on the end of the bowden tube or the boot at the pan?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

The one on the end of the tube.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Man, I wasn't kidding about just hitting it with a hammer. Good stuff though, you'll be much happier driving in traffic now 👍🏼
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
Man, I wasn't kidding about just hitting it with a hammer. Good stuff though, you'll be much happier driving in traffic now 👍🏼


I tried but there's not a lot of room or a good angle to get a good hit on it plus I was trying to avoid removing the clutch cable if I didn't have to. I was also worried about flaring the end of the tube with hammer blows and then not having it fit through the bracket.

Luckily PB Blaster is some good shit Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Erik G wrote:
Man, I wasn't kidding about just hitting it with a hammer. Good stuff though, you'll be much happier driving in traffic now 👍🏼


I tried but there's not a lot of room or a good angle to get a good hit on it plus I was trying to avoid removing the clutch cable if I didn't have to. I was also worried about flaring the end of the tube with hammer blows and then not having it fit through the bracket.

Luckily PB Blaster is some good shit Laughing


PB blaster is 1960s technology. These days it's all about Sili Kroil. Seriously! I've used this stuff to free a stuck engine, reseat rings, free up all sorts of frozen fasteners on all sorts of things. I use it for pop testing and cleaning injectors! There is no fastener I've found yet that an overnight soak didn't free up.

It stinks like PB, but it's a different stench and super hard to get rid of. Wear gloves and don't get it in the house or in the car.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Hi all,
Is there any way to lube the bushings of the pedal assembly short of taking the whole thing apart? Like is there a place I could drop some oil in there?

I'm getting a little bit of stiction in the clutch pedal which I suspect is coming from the bushing not being sufficiently lubricated.
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western auto
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I had sticky clutch pedal on a bug a while back it ended up being a worn out clutch cable hook on the pedal assy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I did consider that, but I was in there not long ago and the hook looks fine. I lubed it up well at the time, too.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

One for the knowledge base:

So if you have an early Type 3 that uses the original style throttle cable 311 721 555, length 2525mm, which was used until sometime mid '65 (to chassis number 315048101) and has the loop end at the pedal, like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


AND

you want to replace the janky stock accelerator pedal linkage with the lovely upgrade X-Celerator Speed Wheel from Classic Bug Parts:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


you will find that even if you rig a pin or bolt on the X-Celerator to capture the loop end of the cable, it is too long to work without modification.

HOWEVER if you obtain the next version of the throttle cable, part number 311 721 555 C, length 2510mm, which was used for later 65 models, and looks like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You will find that not only does it already have the correct end to hook into the X-Celerator without modification, but it is the perfect length.

Lucky me, my '65 was built early enough to have the old-style cable so I found this out the hard way.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Yep - I went through the same thing a few years ago when I swapped it out. That Z arm accelerator pedal linkage design is rather horrible. I think the first time I dealt with it, I just cut the end of the loop off and bent the rest of it to fit the Classic Bug Parts upgrade until a correct cable arrived.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

ataraxia wrote:
That Z arm accelerator pedal linkage design is rather horrible.


It really is. All those friction points that just get super worn and sloppy without proper lubrication. Mine was a mess. The hole in the tab on the back of the pedal was ovaled out, the Z-bar was worn on both ends, and the lever that sits in the pedal base was sloppy. Not VW's finest engineering work IMHO.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
ataraxia wrote:
That Z arm accelerator pedal linkage design is rather horrible.


It really is. All those friction points that just get super worn and sloppy without proper lubrication. Mine was a mess. The hole in the tab on the back of the pedal was ovaled out, the Z-bar was worn on both ends, and the lever that sits in the pedal base was sloppy. Not VW's finest engineering work IMHO.


My accelerator would stick open and I'd have to use my heel and the top of the pedal to pull it back. That got old real fast.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

So let's talk about flat spots with the dual carbs real quick.

This must not have been an uncommon complaint as I noticed the blue Bentley has a technical service bulletin specifically addressing remedies for flat spots with the dual Solex carbs. I suspect mine is fuel-related though one of the remedies VW suggested was to add a relay for the ignition coil so that at least says to me that it's possible that it could be an electrical issue too.

First, the symptom:
I get a flat spot only when the engine is well warmed up. If I start off in first gear with minimal throttle (not lugging, but just enough to smoothly engage the clutch) and then I go to add more throttle once the clutch is fully engaged, that's when I hit the flat spot. Almost like a little stumble.

I have learned to "drive around it" a little bit in that if I give it a little more throttle and if I slip the clutch a bit more to get the car moving I can mostly eliminate it.

So here's my equipment:
- Stock Solex carbs, tuned and synced according to the "Look Listen Do It Better" booklet.
- I think jetting is richer than stock, I recall Keith mentioning that to me. There are probably notes in the car file about the specific jet numbers but I don't have that handy right now.
- Keith built the engine with flat-top pistons, not the original domed pistons.
- 1500 single port
- Original distributor is in use, it holds vacuum well and works smoothly. This distributor is VACUUM ADVANCE ONLY, no centrifugal advance.
- Timing is set to spec at 10 degrees BTDC.

One of the suggestions in the Bentley for flat spot remedies was to bend the accelerator pump nozzles so that they don't spray directly down the carb throat. I did this and it helped a lot. It made the flat spot much less noticeable. This is why I think that it's likely to be fuel-related.

Another suggestion in the Bentley is to check/adjust the accelerator pump injection volume. I am tempted to try this next. My thinking is that because the flat spot only happens on a warmed up engine, then the injection quantity is likely too high, and I should reduce it. Is this a reasonable way of thinking about it?

I'm also considering, as Bentley suggests, adding a coil relay which would take main power from terminal 30 on the solenoid and use the wire from the ignition switch to trip the relay coil. But I'm also a little hesitant to add more potential electrical failure points between power and the coil.

I'd love any suggestions/input from those who have fought this battle before, especially in dealing with the accelerator pumps.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Most likely it's the distributor. To really see the condition it needs to be tested by a pro on the correct machine. Pedro and I have realized over the past few years that a distributor is often overlooked as a problem because "it seem store be working well". Glenn Ring is closest to you and could probably help you. My 64 DD t34 doesn't have a flat spot and I've never really experienced a flat spot with my other dual carbed cars. Single carb engines are another story"...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I agree with Jack - the only time I really had any issues with acceleration or running on my 64 with the stock engine - it was the distributor causing the problem (different from what you're running but, still...). I initially thought there was an issue with the carburetors and I sent them off to be rebuilt but it didn't solve the problem at all...the carburetors were super clean though.
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