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Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing?
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Googlestein
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

Where to begin.... at the start I guess.

Pan restoration with ALL NEW parts including:
Beam CB performance adjustable with 2 inch narrowing and matching leafs
CB short tie rods
new drop spindles
German king and link
TRW steering box
dampener
steering column coupler
Front CB HD sway bar
Rear sway bar
Since the drop one set of camber sleeves under the lower tube/beam

All brand new............

Front toe is 1/8 IN
Front camber is +1 on the driver and 0 on the passenger
Link pin shims are spec to book with the torsion arm difference spec


Problem: Question When I'm going straight the car rides smooth with 1-2 inch of back and forth play. When I start to turn I have to take about 3-4 inches of play out of the wheel before the turn is started. Once the turn is started the car tracks beautifully until I have to straighten out the wheel, then I have to take the 3-4 inches out and she straightens out.

I have to plan my turns ahead of time to allow for the extra time to turn my wheel.

Driving over the mountain pass switchbacks are an arm workout and your @ss is puckering the whole time.

So short recap
Straight 1-2" play
Turns have 3-4 inch outer steering wheel play, but once you are turning it tracks beautiful to pull out of the turn its 3-4" play than beautiful.

I've tried adjusting my steering box but sadly it doesn't seem to do anything for the play, however it tightens AFTER the play on the wheel.

Tried another brand new steering box exact same results.... piss off factor

Checked the steering box coupler to shaft and there is zero play...
Checked the steering column to bracket no play
Changed the steering column coupler

The play seems to be in the box, however changing boxes and adjusting the box doesn't change anything.

WTF am I missing???? I'm to the point of not wanting to drive my bug and for once I'm ready to goto a shop, that I know will mess it up worse and I'll be back to step one.

I don't understand how it can be so tight IN turns and so loose coming OUT of turns, I thought center was the tightest part of the gears. ERRRGH Evil or Very Mad
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theKbStockpiler
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

If you pull up and down on the pitman arm it should not move or clunk indicating that the box is adjusted okay.
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gprudenciop
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

I had the lower link pin bolt come loose and it drove me crazy trying to find it. It would do what you are describing since the link pin backed out. when you turned it would push the bottom of the wheel out causing extra amount of turn..just something to check.....
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helowrench
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

check and ensure that the notch on the clamp for the steering box is engaging the nipple of the beam correctly.
pop a wheel bearing dust cap off, and see if the spindle has slop in relation to the drum.
make sure the trailing arm grub screws are secure in the leaf spring pack.
make sure the center grub screws in the beam are secure in the spring pack.

Most of this will take one person sawing back and forth on the steering wheel while you look at each individual joint to see where you have motion where it should not be, or something not moving when it should be.

Rob
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j-dub
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

I have found that one mistake people make when setting up a steering box is they they don't center it before they install it. The steering box is set up so it binds just a bit on center and is loose when you turn off center left or right.

Take your tierods off from the pitman arm, and turn the wheel back and fourth till you find the center spot where the box is tight and loosens up as you turn either way. Counting the number of turns may not work since some pitman arms have a mechanical stop. You may have to adjust the preload to make it easy to find this spot. Adjust your steering wheel so it is straight at this location and don't move it again. Adjust your tierods to suit.
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rodjr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

TRW steering box, better off with a worn original.

I had to send my original worn out box plus a new TRW box to oktype3tim (member here) and have him build a Frankenstien to get a good box. He did an AMAZING first class job of it.
The new TRW box had as many or more problems than my hammered original.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

TRW boxes and Chinese boxes are a serious crap shoot. On the Type III forum there is a long 20+ page thread about steering boxes. IMO it is best to find a used OEM box and rebuilt it and go through it.

With that said make sure there are no slop at the tie rod ends and at the wheel bearings. Then MAKE SURE that the steering box is centered like recommended above. Then adjust the box according to the manual.
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earthquake
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

Convert to Rack & pinion. I know thats not what you want to hear but it sure is nice to drive.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

Here is the steering box thread for you to read-lots of info

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446&start=0
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
Here is the steering box thread for you to read-lots of info

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446&start=0
^^^^ ditto. as for the trw box....I have a new one thats atlest 16 years old (bought it new 15 years ago. I will someday tear it appart and see if it can be fixed. it barly turns,it's rough as crap, feals like the balls are square....witch wouldent supprize me as I tore appart a vw box that had flats on the balls.....,tim got me some parts so I can see what I can do with the trw. the vw box I ordered new high grade balls, and it's smoothe as owel shit now...but hasent yet found it's way onto the car.
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woodoctr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

I've done about 3 TRW boxes on various projects over the years. And...big surprise......2 were okay and 1 was complete crap.....they are a grab bag of quality at best.....
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Googlestein
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

Well I'll start with centering my box the way mentioned above by feel not counting the turns. I'm pretty sure I counted the turns to find "center" when I installed it.

If that fails I recently bought a VW type 3 steering box that was in beautiful condition that was installed in a super low mile t3. The entire front beam was all stock and looked like it was barely driven before it was taken out.

If that doesn't work I have a extra set of tie rods....

I guess the silver lining is that I intimately know every inch of this front end...
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Steering play again... Can't find the play, what am I missing? Reply with quote

be sure the box it's self is adjusted right....if all else fails remove it and rebuild,throw in the trash,or just stick a known good box on it.... I wouldent go to changing ball joints&tierod ends just for the heck of it those are eazy to check.parts changing dose little more than spending a lot of money and usualy results in parts that may not be as good at the old ones. Wink
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