| Author |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:17 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Tram wrote: |
When you pikers are done high fiving each other over all the usual suspects I'll throw one or 2 at you that I'll be shocked if anyone thinks of.  |
Go for it Tram, we need the challenge. Let's do a weekly "Tram Asks" (bay only) thread so Robbie can have his noob challenges.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| When you pikers are done high fiving each other over all the usual suspects I'll throw one or 2 at you that I'll be shocked if anyone thinks of. |
Go for it Tram, we need the challenge. Let's do a weekly "Tram Asks" (bay only) thread so Robbie can have his noob challenges. |
Maybe weakly.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Tram wrote: |
| hazetguy wrote: |
| Who are the Grateful Dead, and why do they keep following me? |
Because you need your meds adjusted. |
Hmm, should I switch from window panes to the purple wizards?
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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LMAO 
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Tram wrote: |
Maybe weakly. |
yes!!! Like “Battle of the Network Stars” 
Link
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Tram wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| When you pikers are done high fiving each other over all the usual suspects I'll throw one or 2 at you that I'll be shocked if anyone thinks of. |
Go for it Tram, we need the challenge. Let's do a weekly "Tram Asks" (bay only) thread so Robbie can have his noob challenges. |
Maybe weakly. |
This would be a great thread. Throw some HARD troubleshooting scenarios out there to mind *uck the Samba "experts"...
I'll subscribe!
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| ivwshane wrote: |
What are the specs of your bus?
When you say it, "starts slowly", what exactly do you mean? It turns over slowly? Does it eventually start? Have you checked all your electrical connections, battery cables, ground straps, battery to starter? Did autozone also check your a alternator? |
2.0L Fuel Injected T4, hydraulic lifters, otherwise stock.
It doesn't start, but it cranks over slowly. Good questions!
Name the electrical connections! 
Alternator passes muster, though irrelevant.
| 78BusGA wrote: |
When starting the Bus, and attempting to crank the engine a while to get it to start, does the ignition switch feel hot? Are there any other electrical system effects noticed?
Have the wires between the battery, starter, ignition switch, and coil all been inspected for correct gauge, and terminals cleaned for good conductivity? |
Ignition switch does not feel hot. Idiot lights dim more than usual.
Since you listed specific connections, yes THOSE have all been cleaned and inspected.
| andrewtf wrote: |
Doesn't sound like a hot start issue to me.
Do easy first.
Since you just installed the engine - did you check all the grounds?
Check the ground strap on the transmission and report back please.
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| kerian159 wrote: |
| I've had a similar problem with my '76 that was solved by installing a "Hot Start Relay" that basically allows full 12V coming from the Battery to go to the Starter instead of traveling all the way up to the front of the bus to the ignition and then all the way back to the starter. |
Interesting thought process- but the starter engages, and once the starter engages, all current to the starter is straight from battery to motor, thanks to the solenoid. HSR's only help get power to the solenoid, which take it from there.
| Mispeld wrote: |
| Why was the engine out? Did you mess with the distributor? |
Nope.
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
This would be a great thread. Throw some HARD troubleshooting scenarios out there to mind *uck the Samba "experts"...
I'll subscribe! |
Let Tram take this one. New members on Tuesdays, Advanced Mode on Thursdays sound good?
--
andrewtf called it, and wins this round, therefore being bumped out of sandbagging the newbie class into the expert round. JeffG's '77 bus cranked over extremely slowly, because we had the ground strap off to get a better wrench on the brake line unions above the left diagonal arm.
ivwshane gets an honorary mention because he said "ground straps" but didn't mention where or what. Trust me, we checked the battery ground strap!
Last week, fuel, this week electrical. Next week: sliding door or suspension?
Can't wait to play in your thread tomorrow, Tram!
Robbie
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Tram wrote: |
| When you pikers are done high fiving each other over all the usual suspects I'll throw one or 2 at you that I'll be shocked if anyone thinks of. |
My possibilities for after the beginner stuff- I'll mention 3:
1. Worn starter bushing- I actually expected this to be mentioned.
2. Injector leaking down and hydro locking one cylinder
3. Timing too advanced
We also need to know in which order these things should be troubleshot, Robbie.
Let's add "corroded cable ends" and "corroded battery cables" to that list. I've seen + battery cables that looked perfect but were all white/ blue/ green under the insulation where you couldn't see it. This also caused a slow crank/ no start.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| When you pikers are done high fiving each other over all the usual suspects I'll throw one or 2 at you that I'll be shocked if anyone thinks of. |
My possibilities for after the beginner stuff- I'll mention 3:
1. Worn starter bushing- I actually expected this to be mentioned.
2. Injector leaking down and hydro locking one cylinder
3. Timing too advanced
We also need to know in which order these things should be troubleshot, Robbie.
Let's add "corroded cable ends" and "corroded battery cables" to that list. I've seen + battery cables that looked perfect but were all white/ blue/ green under the insulation where you couldn't see it. This also caused a slow crank/ no start. |
Great, now make a thread for the experts tomorrow.
Robbie
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Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3551
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:12 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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I had a starter exhibit slow cranking not that long ago. Voltage checks showed full voltage from starter main lug to starter case. Disassembly showed the solenoid as good, and the brushes were good. Everything looked good - except for the small metal rectangular wire that fell out. Turns out the armature is wound with rectangular shaped wire, and a small section from one commutator segment got brittle, broke off and was thrown from the armature. As all armature winding sections are ultimately in series, a break anywhere effectively kills 1/2 of the armature, and the torque drops radically. No torque, no speed, no start. Armature winding not repairable (except for maybe a total rewind).
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:42 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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i think often times with a starter issue, people are too quick to over trouble shoot the problem. They are especially quick to throw a hot start relay at the problem vs. finding the root cause.
My 70' bus had an intermittent no response from turning the ignition key when the engine/starter were hot. All the connections and ground strap were clean and good. There were many trouble shooting paths I could of gone down. I chose to keep it simple. I knew the battery cables were older and cheap. I replaced them with good quality ones from WW. It was amazing how much quicker the starter spun and the issue was resolved.
Sometimes we over think an issue vs. replacing the obvious things first.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
i think often times with a starter issue, people are too quick to over trouble shoot the problem. They are especially quick to throw a hot start relay at the problem vs. finding the root cause.
My 70' bus had an intermittent no response from turning the ignition key when the engine/starter were hot. All the connections and ground strap were clean and good. There were many trouble shooting paths I could of gone down. I chose to keep it simple. I knew the battery cables were older and cheap. I replaced them with good quality ones from WW. It was amazing how much quicker the starter spun and the issue was resolved.
Sometimes we over think an issue vs. replacing the obvious things first. |
well said Bill, et al who posted. Robbie - maybe a class on using a volt meter might be something that would help new folks here.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| When you pikers are done high fiving each other over all the usual suspects I'll throw one or 2 at you that I'll be shocked if anyone thinks of. |
My possibilities for after the beginner stuff- I'll mention 3:
1. Worn starter bushing- I actually expected this to be mentioned.
2. Injector leaking down and hydro locking one cylinder
3. Timing too advanced
We also need to know in which order these things should be troubleshot, Robbie.
Let's add "corroded cable ends" and "corroded battery cables" to that list. I've seen + battery cables that looked perfect but were all white/ blue/ green under the insulation where you couldn't see it. This also caused a slow crank/ no start. |
Great, now make a thread for the experts tomorrow.
Robbie |
I have actual work to do. You?
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
i think often times with a starter issue, people are too quick to over trouble shoot the problem. They are especially quick to throw a hot start relay at the problem vs. finding the root cause.
My 70' bus had an intermittent no response from turning the ignition key when the engine/starter were hot. All the connections and ground strap were clean and good. There were many trouble shooting paths I could of gone down. I chose to keep it simple. I knew the battery cables were older and cheap. I replaced them with good quality ones from WW. It was amazing how much quicker the starter spun and the issue was resolved.
Sometimes we over think an issue vs. replacing the obvious things first. |
well said Bill, et al who posted. Robbie - maybe a class on using a volt meter might be something that would help new folks here. |
AFTER a class on basic DIN terminal numbers and wiring color codes.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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djdh68dlux
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2005
Posts: 770
Location: I.E., SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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Trying to figure out which threads have the most entertaining commentary - these or Erb's how to video threads.
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1968 Deluxe "Clipper L" Type 2
Looking for a VW club in Southern California? Check out Inland Valley Volkswagens: www.ivvw.org |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22640
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| djdh68dlux wrote: |
| Trying to figure out which threads have the most entertaining commentary - these or Erb's how to video threads. |
Please make a video on how to compare threads
The battery cable failure under insulation is a tough one which has bitten me. You only catchit by either measuring a small resistance ( hard to do) or catchingvoltage drop at the starter duringcranking.
Point for Robbie. In this exercise, in my humble, you are focusing on a symptom -cause approach. That’s appealing to beginners ( my car does this, what’s wrong?) but it is not the path to nirvana.
Teaching diagnostic method and path is key. Maybe wrap up each scenario with a summary...here is how we discover this fault systematically.
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.ssS! |
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| djdh68dlux wrote: |
| Trying to figure out which threads have the most entertaining commentary - these or Erb's how to video threads. |
Please make a video on how to compare threads
The battery cable failure under insulation is a tough one which has bitten me. You only catchit by either measuring a small resistance ( hard to do) or catchingvoltage drop at the starter duringcranking.
Point for Robbie. In this exercise, in my humble, you are focusing on a symptom -cause approach. That’s appealing to beginners ( my car does this, what’s wrong?) but it is not the path to nirvana.
Teaching diagnostic method and path is key. Maybe wrap up each scenario with a summary...here is how we discover this fault systematically. |
Bravo!
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If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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curtp07
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 874
Location: Mass
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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Clean all connections from battery to starter, etc..take everything off and clean thoroughly. Replace and tighten.
Does that help the slow cranking issue?
Oh..just because autozone said the battery is good..what’s the battery’s history...is it kept charged..age..etc.
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Subaru |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:43 am Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 2 - newbies only! |
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Excellent idea Abscate! I’ll get on that later when I find a computer.
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
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78BusGA
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2017
Posts: 315
Location: Buford, Georgia
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