Oil pump to case leak

[FL-Frank]

I installed an oil pump several months ago using a new pump to case paper gasket and a new cover to pump paper gasket. I also applied a very narrow bead of Hylomar to the case flange, and both ends of the pump...being extra careful to stay outside of the pump’s pressure relief groove. I was also very careful to make sure all mating surfaces were surgically clean, and I torqued all fasteners to spec.

300 miles later, the cover to pump seal is leak free, however, the pump to case seal is leaking from both sides and the bottom.

What is the tried and true best practice for installing an oil pump to insure it doesn’t leak?
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“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD

[67rustavenger]

[FL-Frank]

[67rustavenger]

[FL-Frank]

[/quote]The latest scuddle butt on oil pump housing machining, is that they are not as precise as they used to be.

Perhaps your pump has a metal housing? Rather than aluminum that would expand with the case when heating up to engine temp.[/quote]

Rather than installing a new pump, I reinstalled the pump that I had removed as part of a resealing project which included oil cooler seals, oil sending unit, generator stand, etc. i’m pretty sure the pump is aluminum.
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“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD

[mukluk]

Are you certain it's the pump mating surface that is leaking and not a leak coming from above the pump?
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[glutamodo]

Yeah, I would try to clean off the entire area that shows leakage and run the engine briefly, just enough to spawn new leakage then try to zero-in on the pinpoint source of said leakage.
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Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[FL-Frank]

[FL-Frank]

Maybe I should try this method?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576597&highlight=oil+pump+installation
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“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD

[Cusser]

[&Dan]

Very fond of this stuff, works like a charm, and the only reason I know about it and use it is- ta da!- VW oil pumps.

[FL-Frank]

[&Dan]

[glutamodo]

It if often stated in service manuals to install the oil pump-to-case gasket "dry" but I don't know why, I'm usually a fan of Permetex Aviation (which is not an RTV sealant, which I only like to use for a very few specific applications and this is not one of them)
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Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[67rustavenger]

The aviation sealer is good stuff. Just a bit messy if it's put on too heavy.

In the case of the oil pump on my engine.
I tried Curil T. I used a dollar store craft paint brush to just color the pump to case gasket, both sides. Did the same for the pump cover gasket.
Not a single drop of oil leaks out of the pump body or the cover.

RTV? Nope, AFAIC it should only be used on cylinder bases. Sparingly!

Anaerobic sealers are good too. I use them on intake manifold to head connections. Once again, use it very sparingly. The nice thing with these sealers is that you can be back in business within hours of application. They cure in the absence of air.

Ray Greenwood would argue some of this information. But, we are not Ray. We don't have access to his measuring toys. So we have to rely on our given skills and experiences to get the desired results.

Good Luck.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[FL-Frank]

All cleaned and prepped and ready to install the new pump when it arrives tomorrow. Will probably go with the Permatex Spray Sealant this time.

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“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD

[74 Thing]

Now that is clean!

I have never had a problem using Loctite 518 for the oil pump. As a matter of fact I keep some around just for pumps. Put on THIN and you do not have to use gaskets.

[FL-Frank]

The new Schadek pump with 21mm gears arrived today. As long as I have it apart, I decided to replace the 26mm Schadek pump that was installed when the motor was rebuilt 3,500 miles ago. I think the 26mm pump was overkill for this little 1200 cc motor.

Right out of the box, the height of both gears was dead on with the pump face deck height as checked and confirmed with a straight edge. And, the drive gear tab depth measured .250” when fully inserted into the cam slot 😃

I decided to use Permatex Spray Gasket sealer on both sides of the paper gasket between the pump and case. However, rather than using a sealant between the cover and pump and running the risk of clogging the pressure relief groove in the face of the pump, I decided to simply soak the thinner paper gasket in clean motor oil before installing it between the pump and cover.
Hopefully this works well.

I also trued up the cover’s mating surface with sandpaper, and made sure all scratches were removed and the finished surface is perfectly flat as checked and confirmed with a straight edge.

After applying liberal amounts of assembly lube to the pump gears and cavity, I installed the cover with 4 new sealing nuts torqued to 7 ft. Lbs. to secure everything.

Over the weekend, I’ll torque the few case nuts I had loosened to facilitate the pump removal and installation, and install lthe crank pulley, belt, tins, muffler, etc., fill it with fresh oil, and start it up and check for leaks.

Fingers crossed!

_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD

[FL-Frank]

I fininshed reassembly this morning, started it up, and oil is running down the right side of the pump to case seam at idle.

Time to tear it down again...this is frustrating!
_________________
“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD

[anthracitedub]

Man that sucks! I’ve never had an issue with pump sealing. I’m wondering if it’s the case surface. That’s really all there is left. I don’t have any good suggestions to check this area for true since it’s assembled and has the studs, but I think there could be something going on there.