Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Timing Chain
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Forum Index -> Eurovan Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Ok, loosening the rear of the downpipe did the trick, but now the CVs won't free themselves enough to allow me to pull the drivetrain forward. I'm guessing I need to loosen the lower BJ mounts to allow the axles to swing away from the trans. The first time doing a big job like this is always full of stupidity. I really should read the FN manual. Grrrrrrr
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

More proof that if you bitch and moan enough, problems resolve themselves.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just because, here's a comparison between T3 and late T4 CV bolts

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Joshwa
Samba Member


Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 810
Location: North Seattle WA
Joshwa is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Yeah, always a relief when it finally comes. That transmission extension arm bracket is always the bit I forget to unbolt, and waste time wondering why the engine won’t come out. The 93, btw, uses the bolts on the left.
_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

I loosened the extension arm, but it didn't give me any freedom of movement. I honestly don't know how you're supposed to replace axles in these things, and am not sure how I'm going to reinstall this drivetrain. I had to pry the axles free of the flanges, which didn't feel like it was good for them. Loosening the lower BJ mounts did nothing for me. I'm obviously missing a key detail, here.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli


Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12816
Location: North Carolina
TDCTDI is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

That's why I leave the transmission in place but you already explained why you were pulling the whole thing. The last one I pulled was on a Rialta, you ain't getting that pig on a lift.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CdnVWJunkie Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: February 01, 2004
Posts: 1107
Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
CdnVWJunkie is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I loosened the extension arm, but it didn't give me any freedom of movement. I honestly don't know how you're supposed to replace axles in these things, and am not sure how I'm going to reinstall this drivetrain. I had to pry the axles free of the flanges, which didn't feel like it was good for them. Loosening the lower BJ mounts did nothing for me. I'm obviously missing a key detail, here.


I find it's helpful to relieve the pressure on the 27mm nuts on the suspension. Make note of the length of exposed thread. I also remove the outer tie rod ends. This allows the knuckle to "flop" around. It's still very tight but does allow for some more wiggle room.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stripped66
Samba Member


Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Charleston, SC
Stripped66 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Loosening the lower BJ mounts did nothing for me.


It's more than just loosening the lower ball-joint; you need to pull the steering knuckle free of the ball joint. Then, turn full-lock towards the knuckle's respective side so that you can slide the outer CV/stub axle out of the hub. The shocks need to be removed for this to occur (I'm assuming you did this), and you need to jack up the control-arms so that there's enough room for the inner CV to be removed from the sub-frame (at least on the driver's side...passenger side should slide forward since the transmission isn't there to keep it captive within the sub-frame).

Anyway, here you are. I suggest reinstalling the CV/axles prior to reinstalling the transmission...just leave the inner CVs resting on the sub-frame.
_________________
66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Holy shit, I'm getting learned all up and down. Over the years, I've pulled dozens of FWD VAG drivetrains and have never needed to go through all these oddball steps to clear the CVs. While it's a little bit different front suspension, I removed the drivetrain on the '01 Jetta engine donor for my Vanagon, and it had a very similar 01M trans. None of these steps were required. Living and learning, even despite my advanced age.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stripped66
Samba Member


Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Charleston, SC
Stripped66 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

The strut front suspension of other VAG chassis', when disconnected from the lower connecting arm, allows the steering knuckle to move much further away from the transmission to remove the stub-shaft from the front hub, and clear the steering knuckle from the CV/shaft to remove it.

On the EV, you disconnect the lower ball-joint and that gives you maybe another 1/2" to move the steering knuckle away from the transmission to remove the stub-shaft. (I may be embellishing exactly how much this distance is, but having replaced the CV shafts on my EV last week, the actual distance is less than the amount necessary to do the job without cursing)
_________________
66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
markcm2
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2015
Posts: 505
Location: Bellingham, Washington
markcm2 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

I think we just released the lower ball joint on the passenger side and it went back together "fairly" smoothly.

From our transmission thread:
Quote:

For the passenger side half-shaft we had to remove the 2 12-point bolts holding the lower ball joint to the hub to be able to get the intermediate axle back in. That's all done now.

We just started it up, at idle it ran well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gruppe B
Samba Member


Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331

Gruppe B is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Holy shit, I'm getting learned all up and down. Over the years, I've pulled dozens of FWD VAG drivetrains and have never needed to go through all these oddball steps to clear the CVs. While it's a little bit different front suspension, I removed the drivetrain on the '01 Jetta engine donor for my Vanagon, and it had a very similar 01M trans. None of these steps were required. Living and learning, even despite my advanced age.


Hey Zeitgeist,
Can you take a photo of the engine where it meets up with the transmission when you get it split? I just want to see where all the bolts are to split the engine and transmission.

I'm in the same boat needing to redo the timing chains and may just leave the transmission in place. I thought that removing the engine and transmission in one piece made sense until I read this thread....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Here's the back end of the engine before I replaced the chains.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gruppe B
Samba Member


Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331

Gruppe B is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Thanks Zeit!

Where did you see the most wear with the timing? Gears, guides, chains?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Ironically, the long black cam chain guide in the middle of the pic had the most wear...which I had replaced a little over a year ago. I'm referring to the old one I replaced at that time--the new one was still in excellent shape. Everything else looked really good. This was a preemptive service that didn't need to take place. But, I was also preemptively swapping transmissions, so it just made sense to go there, too. Sadly, I won't be finished in time for our family trip up to B.C., so we'll be driving the Audi.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CdnVWJunkie Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: February 01, 2004
Posts: 1107
Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
CdnVWJunkie is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

That's too bad about the timing Casey but such is the way with these projects.

I suggest closely scrutinizing the idler sprocket. The last couple i've done there was heavy wear on the teeth.

Chris, either the engine or trans has to come out to access all of the chains and guides. This is the type of job you want to use the mantra: do it once, so do it right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Yeah, my timeline for this project was overly optimistic. I got tripped up with some SNAFUs acquiring CV boots and upper timing cover seals--silly stuff.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
CdnVWJunkie Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: February 01, 2004
Posts: 1107
Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
CdnVWJunkie is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

BTDT with time lines. Jobs like these are best not rushed. Too easy to get side tracked and miss a step which could cause catastrophic results.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote


Link

_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Chain Reply with quote

Well, I finally got it back up and running. I'm truly amazed with how quiet and vibration free it runs now. When idling at a stoplight I can barely hear it at all. The timing chains were probably the easiest and least ambiguous set of tasks of this whole project. I had to really do a lot of trial and error to both remove and reinstall the axles. The key concept is to not be stingy with removing parts. Remove some and then remove some more.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Eurovan All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Page 6 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.