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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Ok, loosening the rear of the downpipe did the trick, but now the CVs won't free themselves enough to allow me to pull the drivetrain forward. I'm guessing I need to loosen the lower BJ mounts to allow the axles to swing away from the trans. The first time doing a big job like this is always full of stupidity. I really should read the FN manual. Grrrrrrr _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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More proof that if you bitch and moan enough, problems resolve themselves.
Just because, here's a comparison between T3 and late T4 CV bolts
_________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Joshwa Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015 Posts: 810 Location: North Seattle WA
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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I loosened the extension arm, but it didn't give me any freedom of movement. I honestly don't know how you're supposed to replace axles in these things, and am not sure how I'm going to reinstall this drivetrain. I had to pry the axles free of the flanges, which didn't feel like it was good for them. Loosening the lower BJ mounts did nothing for me. I'm obviously missing a key detail, here. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12816 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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That's why I leave the transmission in place but you already explained why you were pulling the whole thing. The last one I pulled was on a Rialta, you ain't getting that pig on a lift. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1107 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
I loosened the extension arm, but it didn't give me any freedom of movement. I honestly don't know how you're supposed to replace axles in these things, and am not sure how I'm going to reinstall this drivetrain. I had to pry the axles free of the flanges, which didn't feel like it was good for them. Loosening the lower BJ mounts did nothing for me. I'm obviously missing a key detail, here. |
I find it's helpful to relieve the pressure on the 27mm nuts on the suspension. Make note of the length of exposed thread. I also remove the outer tie rod ends. This allows the knuckle to "flop" around. It's still very tight but does allow for some more wiggle room. |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Loosening the lower BJ mounts did nothing for me. |
It's more than just loosening the lower ball-joint; you need to pull the steering knuckle free of the ball joint. Then, turn full-lock towards the knuckle's respective side so that you can slide the outer CV/stub axle out of the hub. The shocks need to be removed for this to occur (I'm assuming you did this), and you need to jack up the control-arms so that there's enough room for the inner CV to be removed from the sub-frame (at least on the driver's side...passenger side should slide forward since the transmission isn't there to keep it captive within the sub-frame).
Anyway, here you are. I suggest reinstalling the CV/axles prior to reinstalling the transmission...just leave the inner CVs resting on the sub-frame. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Holy shit, I'm getting learned all up and down. Over the years, I've pulled dozens of FWD VAG drivetrains and have never needed to go through all these oddball steps to clear the CVs. While it's a little bit different front suspension, I removed the drivetrain on the '01 Jetta engine donor for my Vanagon, and it had a very similar 01M trans. None of these steps were required. Living and learning, even despite my advanced age. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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The strut front suspension of other VAG chassis', when disconnected from the lower connecting arm, allows the steering knuckle to move much further away from the transmission to remove the stub-shaft from the front hub, and clear the steering knuckle from the CV/shaft to remove it.
On the EV, you disconnect the lower ball-joint and that gives you maybe another 1/2" to move the steering knuckle away from the transmission to remove the stub-shaft. (I may be embellishing exactly how much this distance is, but having replaced the CV shafts on my EV last week, the actual distance is less than the amount necessary to do the job without cursing) _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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I think we just released the lower ball joint on the passenger side and it went back together "fairly" smoothly.
From our transmission thread:
Quote: |
For the passenger side half-shaft we had to remove the 2 12-point bolts holding the lower ball joint to the hub to be able to get the intermediate axle back in. That's all done now.
We just started it up, at idle it ran well. |
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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Holy shit, I'm getting learned all up and down. Over the years, I've pulled dozens of FWD VAG drivetrains and have never needed to go through all these oddball steps to clear the CVs. While it's a little bit different front suspension, I removed the drivetrain on the '01 Jetta engine donor for my Vanagon, and it had a very similar 01M trans. None of these steps were required. Living and learning, even despite my advanced age. |
Hey Zeitgeist,
Can you take a photo of the engine where it meets up with the transmission when you get it split? I just want to see where all the bolts are to split the engine and transmission.
I'm in the same boat needing to redo the timing chains and may just leave the transmission in place. I thought that removing the engine and transmission in one piece made sense until I read this thread.... |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Here's the back end of the engine before I replaced the chains.
_________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Thanks Zeit!
Where did you see the most wear with the timing? Gears, guides, chains? |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Ironically, the long black cam chain guide in the middle of the pic had the most wear...which I had replaced a little over a year ago. I'm referring to the old one I replaced at that time--the new one was still in excellent shape. Everything else looked really good. This was a preemptive service that didn't need to take place. But, I was also preemptively swapping transmissions, so it just made sense to go there, too. Sadly, I won't be finished in time for our family trip up to B.C., so we'll be driving the Audi. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1107 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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That's too bad about the timing Casey but such is the way with these projects.
I suggest closely scrutinizing the idler sprocket. The last couple i've done there was heavy wear on the teeth.
Chris, either the engine or trans has to come out to access all of the chains and guides. This is the type of job you want to use the mantra: do it once, so do it right. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Yeah, my timeline for this project was overly optimistic. I got tripped up with some SNAFUs acquiring CV boots and upper timing cover seals--silly stuff. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1107 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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BTDT with time lines. Jobs like these are best not rushed. Too easy to get side tracked and miss a step which could cause catastrophic results. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Link
_________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Chain |
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Well, I finally got it back up and running. I'm truly amazed with how quiet and vibration free it runs now. When idling at a stoplight I can barely hear it at all. The timing chains were probably the easiest and least ambiguous set of tasks of this whole project. I had to really do a lot of trial and error to both remove and reinstall the axles. The key concept is to not be stingy with removing parts. Remove some and then remove some more. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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