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karu Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2008 Posts: 229 Location: Cross Lanes, WV
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:00 am Post subject: Question on distributor |
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I have a distributor with part # 0 231 176 044 which is from a fuel injection aj engine I bought as a core.
I recently rebuilt a "stock" engine. (only difference from stock is it is 1641 cc - 87mm bore).
Can I use this distributor with a 34 pict 3 carb?
Performance-wise, is it any better than 009 and H 30/31 combination?
This is going into a buggy. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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If I'm not mistaken that's pretty much a 205H distributor under a different number, and it might be usable. It's a DVDA type of vacuum can, and may work if you run it as an SVDA, with the retard port disconnected and plugged, depending on the flange number on your carb.
Off the top of my head I can tell you that the vacuum canister is the same as the 113 905 205 AN Distributor, but the mechanical advance curve is a bit different. should take ~350mmHg for full vacuum advance to kick in.
Beetle 1975-1979 * 1600 FI Manual Trans
Distributor: VW 043-905-205H, Bosch 0231 176 044
Can Use:
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 074
Rotor: 04 033
Dust Cover: 039-905-241, Bosch 1230 500 139 > 1230 500 147
Cap: 03 010
Distributor Cap Clip: 034-905-265, Bosch 1231 251 033
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 012
Vacuum Can: 07 114
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 5deg ATDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected.Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 5-8deg Adv, 11-13deg Ret; Centrifugal: 6-12deg @ 1500rpm, 20-23deg @ 3500rpm
If your carb is set up to work with an SVDA I would say it would work if you leave the retard plugged ad disconnnected, and I personally wouldn't run it as a DVDA, as the extra idle advance is a bit nicer for off-the-line performance, in my opinion/experience. If the distributor is still in good shape try it and see.
I would time it like an 009, set it up so that you have 30° full advance all in with both hoses disconnected and plugged, and then hook up the vacuum advance. _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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karu Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2008 Posts: 229 Location: Cross Lanes, WV
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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Lingwendil, thanks so much for the descriptive answer. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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You're welcome-
However
The advance curve may or may not suit the engine, but no harm in trying it. A few years ago I ran the same distributor on a 34-3 carb for a while and found it was perfectly drivable for sure. I only pulled it off because I found the correct distributor for the carb (I think my carb in particular was set up for use with a 205AN? It's been a few years) and it felt different, but not really better or worse.
You have a pretty light vehicle so I doubt it will make a huge difference. _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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As stated by lingenwendil, the 043 H distributor IS a 176 044. The first set of numbers is the VW# for the distributor the second set of numbeers is the Bosch# for the distributor.
You may be loosing as much as 4 degrees of advance with this distributor which can be compensated for when setting the timing. The retard side of the canister is the same but is likely not functioning by now. The 043 H was used on 1973-1974 type 181 Things which I believe were carburated so you should be ok. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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ccowx Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2015 Posts: 654 Location: Whitehorse Yukon
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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You can play with the timing further by modifying the advance mechanism. It is not hard to either play with the advance stops or to replace the springs to change the total or rate of advance.
As stated here, total advance is what is important and it should be around 30. If you shorten down the amount of advance you can set the initial timing higher and still keep the total where you want it. By changing springs you can have it all in at 2500-3000 rpms, which is where many feel it is best for performance. Incidentally, that is roughly where an 009 comes in.
Chris
PS: ACN.net sells a vac canister to replace the one on your dissy, which is quite possibly not working by now anyway. |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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Be prepared for a lot of work if you follow the above advice. Changing the advance stops or replacing the counterweight springs requires often repeated disassembly,reassembly and testing cycles. A distributor machine helps shorten the time invoived and ads accuracy by not having to install and time the redone distributor on a working engine, but not many have a working distributor machine. That's why custom curving a distributor advance can run into real money. It's not necessarily "hard work" but it is definitely time consuming.
I'm dealing with this right now with a customers VJU 4 BR 8. Neither the advance weights nor the vacuum canister were performing correctly after restoration and first assembly.
You are much better off doing your research and finding the correct distributor in the best possible shape to begin with. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Last edited by tasb on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:17 am; edited 2 times in total |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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ccowx wrote: |
You can play with the timing further by modifying the advance mechanism. It is not hard to either play with the advance stops or to replace the springs to change the total or rate of advance.
As stated here, total advance is what is important and it should be around 30. If you shorten down the amount of advance you can set the initial timing higher and still keep the total where you want it. By changing springs you can have it all in at 2500-3000 rpms, which is where many feel it is best for performance. Incidentally, that is roughly where an 009 comes in.
Chris
PS: ACN.net sells a vac canister to replace the one on your dissy, which is quite possibly not working by now anyway. |
To the best of my knowledge no one is selling a new dual vacuum 951 canister. ACN is/was providing us with a single vacuum advance reproduction canister designed for the "034" distributor. It does not directly fit every DVDA mount locations and the quality while the best available, is not great according to what I've read on here. They are prone to early failure. If you modify the housing or canister mount arms to accept a non stock vacuum canister you change the geometry of the pull rod, which further complicates things. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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ccowx Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2015 Posts: 654 Location: Whitehorse Yukon
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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And everything that tasb says is true, it is a tria and error process and the stock distributors do not have the same designed in adjustability that the aftermarket ones often do. I am fortunate that I do have access to a distributor machine, but even at that, the engine will dictate its needs and likely you will need to adjust it after it goes in.
Sorry if I over simplified the process, but in this day of you get what you get, if anything, when it comes to parts it is good to look at readily available alternatives.
Chris |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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Well said. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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j-dub Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2003 Posts: 865 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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tasb wrote: |
Be prepared for a lot of work if you follow the above advice. Changing the advance stops or replacing the counterweight springs requires often repeated disassembly,reassembly and testing cycles. A distributor machine helps shorten the time invoived and ads accuracy by not having to install and time the redone distributor on a working engine, but not many have a working distributor machine. That's why custom curving a distributor advance can run into real money. It's not necessarily "hard work" but it is definitely time consuming.
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Agree with this 100% however it can be fun and satisfying when you are in the mood for it. You can learn a lot about what your engine likes and dislikes as well. _________________ 1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on." |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Question on distributor |
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Absolutely true, Something that I do enjoy doing from time to time, if I have it, but I'm a distributor geek. My oval (that I have since sold) and my 1957 Kombi are multiple event slow drag winning vehicles over many years, in part because of the tuning I've done to the distributors which has allowed me to get my idle down to the point that when I'm "racing" the oil pressure and generator lights stay on all the time. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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