VJU 4 BR 8/ 0 231 115 040 Cast Iron SVDA Distributor

[Lingwendil]

Hey there everybody! Since I have referred to these distributors off and on, and want to avoid pulling other threads off topic posting details regarding their use, I figured it was time to make a reference thread for those of us that have had success using them on our engines. I plan for this to be a general reference thread of sorts regarding currently available parts, and some easy modifications.

Previous threads for reference-
https://www.thesamba.com/vw//forum/viewtopic.php?p=8381132

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=678638

This is meant to be a general primer for the everyday guy that may not have ever done much more than static-time a Chinese 009, so bear with me if it's a bit too basic for some

The original application was for 36HP Type 1 engines, and was paired to the 28PCI carb, starting August of 1954. Seeing as this is a very versatile distributor, this will be a series of posts outlining some details regarding their use. I find that they work very well in place of other SVDA types of distributors, and I have successfully used them with ICTs, Kadrons, IDFs, and even the 34PICT-3. The preload is adjustable on the vacuum can, so it can (to an extent) be dialed in to work well with many different setups. It may not be a good choice on engines with very lopey cams, but since I've only ever gone fairly conservative with my builds, I'll go ahead and say that it is a good choice on a mild performance engine. The mechanical advance is the nearly identical to the "019" distributor, so if a 019 works well for you, and your carbs have the necessary port for vacuum advance, this may be a nice way to gain additional MPG and performance. More will be said about the details of the advance curve in a later post.

This will be the first post of several.


Tune-up Parts

To strart with, we'll go into tune-up parts. A more thorough list of parts is in the following document- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts.pdf

Here's a couple exploded views of the distributor, from Everett's Gallery-

Originally, these take the following Bosch parts, short numbers shown-

Rotor #: 04 008 (resistor style)

Cap #: 03 019 (same as the "010" and "019" distributors)

Points # 01 002 "dog-leg" or 01 003 "non dog-leg"

Condensor # 02 170

Vacuum can # 07 002

For reference, the port on the vacuum can is 8mm x 1.0mm thread.




The following are locally available to those of you with a Napa Auto Parts in your area, reserve online and ship to store if able. They aren't always available onhand at many locations. If trying to get them to look up parts for you in store, tell them the application is for a 58 Beetle with OEM distributor. Pull out your phone and cross reference part numbers if needed. These aren't necessarily concourse restoration correct, but perfectly functional every-man daily-driver parts-

For some high quality points sets, I like the Napa Eichlin ignition parts. these are similar to the Blue Streak parts of yore. I will take these over recent prduction Bosch any day, no questions asked. They are very nicely made. I'll try and post some close photos later on when we talk about the dog-leg points setup, and the differences between early and late distributors.

Dogleg adjuster version-
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHCS301

Non-dogleg version-
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHCS323

Condensor that fits and works nicely, although isn't visually a match to OEM-
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHEP125

The Rotor I've use on the last several I restored are also Eichlin branded. Some fit a tad loose on the shaft, and may require the spring inside the underside to be bent out slightly, but they are a reasonable alternative to Bosch. Imporatant to note that these measure close to 50 ohms, rather than 5000 ohms as the original Bosch do. This may or may not matter to you, but can be a viable alternative if you want lower resistance in a rotor. I also like Bosch for these.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHEP278

Another rotor alternative, but at the price may as well buy Bosch-
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BOS-1-234-332-088

For distributor cap, I also use either this Eichlin cap, or a Wolfsburg West cap. These have copper terminals inside, and are good quality. These are the same cap you see sold at many other local auto parts stores, as well. Not to be confused with the "Mileage plus" brand, which has aluminum terminals, and is a darker brown plastic, and feels more fragile.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHEP131

Another couple caps, from CIP1. WHen I asked for the difference between the two via email, the rep at CIP1 was unable to tell me the differnece between the two, but that the orange-brown one was "unbranded generic" type. The parts listing for the darker one has "BOS" in the part number, but I doubt it is Bosch, as I'm sure they would add that to the listing. If anyone has experience with either, I'd love to hear of it.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-905-207-B

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BOS-1-235-522-107


If looking for NOS parts specifically for a "correct" build or restoration, your best bet is to reach out to our very own Glenn Ring, or to watch the classifieds. Glenn can also restore these distributors for you and provide any parts you need. User "tasb" can also do this for you.


For those of you wanting to buy current production Bosch branded parts specifically, or parts geared more towards restoration, Wolfsburg West and other vendors carry them still in many instances-

Vacuum line- If you now of other sources, let me know. It's a lot of money just to chop off the end These are often chopped off an inch or two from the can, and can be used as a stub for regular soft vacuum line.
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111129493A

http://www.wagen-werks.com/vacuum-line-distributor-1954-to-1960-28-pci/

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-129-493-A

Replacement vacuum can, NOS (hard to find! as a rule, I don't buy cores unless the vacuum can is functional!)
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111905271A

Genuine VW points set, non-dogleg style-
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111998053

Original Bosch points set, with adjuster screw, hairpin clip, and washer- a good value if yours is missing these parts-
http://www.pinzgauer.com/showdetails.php?cat=pinzgauer&partno=7101095230B

Wolfsburg West brand condensor, these are pretty nice!
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111905295

Bosch rotor, 5000 ohm resistance-
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111905225C

Wolfsburg West branded cap. These are absolutely beautiful, a very handsome reddish-deep brown color, and fit nicely. I have experienced issues with several of them cracking near the cutout area above the condensor/points connection though. Unsure why.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111905207B

Bosch cap at Bus Depot-
https://www.busdepot.com/111905207b

If anybody has extra sources for parts to add to this post, let me know and I'll put it in! Especially looking for online sources for Bremi caps.

You can find caps variously in many different places, but it can be difficult to confirm that it is the one you are looking for. Especially on places like Ebay, buyer beware. If you aren't 100% certain the listing is the one you need, I would buy elsewhere. I recommend you always buy from a reputable vendor no matter what you do.


More to come later!
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[gt1953]

Excellent write up on the old school SVDA. Now just have to find one at the next swap meet to go with the four 034's I have.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[jpaull]

Awesome topic ! Man thats alot of info in your first post!

Since there are alot of cores out there still for cheap, these are such a cool option for the guy who wants quality and may not have $500 for a nice 010, and doesnt want a $30 034/009 cheap copy.

Its interesting to see how people can work with the advance thats available.

[j-dub]

Some comments from other threads relating to this

[j-dub]

As stated earlier the VJU4BR8 shares the same mechanical advance design as the 019 and has 17 degrees of advance in by 3200 RPM.

The 010 mechanical advance mechanism is similar but has 20 degrees of advance and is all in by 2800 RPM.

The total mechanical advance is limited by the size of a hole in the bottom of the advance plate. The 010 has a larger hole as compared to the BR8/019.
The rate of advance is determined by the strength of the springs and the mass of the flyweights. The 010 has heaver weights and lighter springs as compared to the BR8/019.
The shape of the advance curve is dictated by the shape of the advance cam, this is not easily modified.
The starting point of the mechanical advance on any of these distributors is set by the spring tension. The tension arms are set by loosening two screws and rotating them upon the axis. Less preload and the mechanical advance starts sooner.

In the VJU4BR8 that I am currently using on my 2276 I have installed the 010 weights and springs to get the full mechanical advance to come in around 2800 rpm.
I have no problems with the less mechanical advance as compared to the 010, I think this is a good thing. Remember Jake would use 12/28 as a starting point in a lot of his Unilites.
_________________
1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on."

[Glenn]

[Glenn]

[Lingwendil]

I've had good luck getting cores for $30-35 with good vacuum cans.

I have a hell of a time finding mechanical only cores for less than $150, and they're usually stripped and missing bits at that price.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[j-dub]

[jpaull]

[jpaull]

[tasb]

The ad posted above is mislabeled. Those are Garbe Lahmeyer distributors for VW. They are good cast iron distributors but being vacuum advance only, they are really only for stock applications.

I received a core VJU 4 BR 8 several years ago that had JB weld covering the hole for the vacuum canister in an attempt to make it an 019. A pretty nice job was done actually. The points plate did not line up correctly which was the downfall of the idea. They crossed the line when they super glued an 019 badge onto the housing.

Maybe I'm lucky but I regularly find aluminum and cast iron SVDA distributors at swaps for $10 or less. sometimes people just bring me a pile for free "hi, are you the distributor distributor?" which I can then turn around and distribute for a lower price once restored. I have a milk crate full of VJU 4 BR 8 cores in the shop.

_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[Lingwendil]

(for some of the pictures used in this post, I'm linking to photos originally posted by Hazetguy in the following thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434766 in order to ensure they are accessible in the future)


So, what the heck are "dogleg" points, anyway?

So, those unfamiliar with these distributors (or the late fifties, early sixties distributors in general) may be unsure what I mean when I mention "dogleg" style points. The original production of the VJU4BR8 featured two-piece points, that had a tab perpendicular to the mounting pivot, and there was captive under this tab an eccentric screw to aid in fine adjustment of the point gap-

You can see the small black slotted screw near the bosch logo on the point assembly, at about 8 o'clock on the picture.

The later production replacement for this distributor goes by the part number "0 231 115 040" using the later Bosch numbering scheme, and was introduced in the mid sixties. I'm unsure of the exact production dates and values, however. A change made to this version, was the addition of nubs near the rubbing block end of the points assembly, to aid in adjustment of the points. This version can still take the earlier "dogleg" style points assembly, but are also set up to use the later style two-piece points, that lack the provision for the eccentric adjuster. The difference between the two styles can be seen here, note that the eccentric screw is missing in this pic-

The early VJU4BR8 style on the left, and the later "040" style is on the right. You can note the adjustment nubs at about 1 o'clock on the right hand set, and these are lacking on the earlier style plates. It should be noted, that you can still use the later style points on the early style plate, but it will be a little trickier to adjust the points gap. Still pretty easily done, however. Other than the points arrangement, the distributors are functionally identical.

Is one better than the other? Not really, no. Once adjusted correctly and tightened, they will function the same. I like the uniqueness of the early style adjustment with the eccentric screw, but they are often missing if you buy your distributor "stripped, as they so often are when affordable.

General points info

No matter which points set you use, make sure that you adjust them correctly, and this is preferably done with a dwell meter. A feeler gauge is good for getting you close, but I find that once the parts all "wear in" that to get dwell in the desired range, you often end up using less gap than you may have initially needed. Also, make sure to lube the rubbing block on the points, as well as the lobes of the distributor shaft! It doesn't take much. The preferred compound to use here is, of course, Genuine Bosch Distributor grease. You will find this stuff hard to find, and generally expensive these days. There are alternatives available, and everyone has their own favorites. After my tube of Bosch grease disappeared years ago during a VW meet at my house ( ) I've been using SuperLube. It's not petroleum based, so it doesn't get thick and nasty like bearing greases will, and it sticks very well over time. a thin smear on the cam lobes, and a little dab on the back of the rubbing block is what I like to do, and it works very well. Some points sets come with a small capsule of grease (the Eichlin sets from Napa, for instance) and it works just as well. It appears similar to Sta-Lube engine assembly lube with graphite, but I'm not sure exactly what it's composed of.

The wire for the points on these actually attaches to a stud in the body of the distributor, and this stud is insulated from the body with either a rubber, plastic, or fiber bushing. Care must be taken when attaching the points wire terminal to this stud that it does not contact the points plate, otherwise the wire will be grounded and not function correctly, if at all. This same bolt attaches the condenser lead on the outside of the distributor body, and must also be clean and free of anything that could short the lead to the body, or surrounding metallic items in the engine bay. For example, I helped set one of these up on a buddies car, and we found that the way his fuel hardline was bent caused it to nearly rest against the stud, so we bent the line out of the way and slipped some fuel hose over it for protection. If you are missing the insulating washers, there are nylon collared washers available at most hardware stores (in the little misc bins, most places have them) that will work very well.

note the "field expedient" tab added to the clip so that the cap can't pivot

Also, make sure that the braided wire from the distributor vacuum can assembly is securely attached and bolted down to the points plate, otherwise the distributor will not ground properly.

A wire with a ring terminal on the distributor end, with a female terminal on the other end is a nice secure way to attach the points wire to the outside world, as is one of these, which will give you a easy quick-disconnect feature at the distributor-

POINTS? I must have electronic!

As far as points replacement modules in these guys, they should be the same as any other installation, as the only true difference in most are the mounting plate throughout each product line. Care must be taken to ensure that the wires do not chafe or rub on the rotor, shaft, or internal components, as you would ensure when installing the module in any other modern distributor. Make sure there is enough slack that the points plate can pivot as vacuum pulls the can and rotates the plate, as well. If the module you are installing does not have a rubber grommet of some sort to pass the wires through the body of the distributor, install one. They're cheap and will prevent the wires becoming damaged over time.

As far as points replacement modules go, in general I'm not a huge fan due to spotty personal experience with their reliability, and will not go into them much further here. We have a large thread full of very helpful information on that matter here- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

I will add, however, I really like to run points with a Ford TFI module! Here is the thread, if you are interested in looking into it further, check it out here-
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

And here's a look at what I'll be playing with soon on one of my 040 distributors-

More to come soon
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Glenn]

Caps

NOS Bosch - Bremi - Bosch (NLA)

Tune Up Parts

Left are NOS and Right are new. The condenser is for a BR25 or 010

Condensers

Wolfsburg West - Bosch NOS (NLA) - Bosch Germany (NLA)

_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[tasb]

I have found that the dog leg points do not stay put real well without the accentric screw. If you don't have that fine adjustment screw use the updated points assembly.

Another detail in the same area is the little hair pin clip that aids in keeping the stationary part of the points assembly seated on the brass post.

_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[mondshine]

Here's one to make Glenn cringe, but...

I made some modifications to a VJU4BR8 that I am pretty happy with.

I used the lower part of the shaft with the advance mechanism from an 019.
The upper part (where the rotor is attached is from a VJU4BR8.
I turned a plug for the hole in the distributor case where the bolt for electrical connection was, and silver brazed it to the cast iron case. Then the hole was re-located and re-sized to match that on later type distributors.
I substituted a later style breaker plate; the kind with 2 nubs for points adjustment.
I reduced the thickness of the "hole end" of the threaded actuating rod, so it could be held on the breaker plate post with a C clip.
Lastly, I filed a notch in the cast iron case, so I could use a later style cap.

Now, all of my ignition parts are easy to get:
Bosch 01-011 Ignition Points, 311-998-063
Bosch 02-031 Condenser, 1 237 330 162
Bosch 03-010 Distributor Cap, 113-905-207C
Bosch 04-033/04-110 Ignition Rotor, 043-905-225

Right now, it is set for 28* total centrifugal, with about 10* additional from vacuum starting at about 5" Hg.

[Glenn]

[Lingwendil]

[mondshine]

Ling-
Here are a few more details:

This VJU4BR8 was pretty rusted and busted when I got it, with many stripped holes in the cast iron body. So most of the threaded holes have been re-tapped one size up from original. I was lucky enough to fine an NOS vacuum can for about $40 a couple of years ago.

This sketch illustrates the re-sized and re-located hole to accommodate the later style condenser.
I sized the "plug" to approximate the overall shape of the cast iron body.

Here's a view of the 02-031 condenser:

I like this type for its integral bracket, and simplified hookup.

Here's the inside.
You can see the later style breaker plate, and the modified actuator rod under the C clip.

[jpaull]

Mondshine, that is impressive work! I love it! Nice pictures and write up too!

I also like the black wrinkle finish on the distributor. Looks like it came from the factory like that. All those details are really cool way to make one of these practical for daily use and easy replacement parts.