Nothing Level on MGTD Kit Car Front End

[BIGBAND39]

Hello Everyone!

I recently purchased an MGTD kit car which appeared to be in nice shape. After taking a better look at the front, to my dismay, I realized that every bit of it is sloping in various odd directions. The grill seems to be leaning towards the right while the rest of the vehicle is leaning left. The bumper also dips to the left as well. Before I start pulling things apart, I was hoping to get some insight. It seems that the body can only be installed one way, making the grill issue even more confusing. I have been reading that the body lean in the opposite direction can be caused by sticking shocks, link pins, and the like. I haven't had the change to put the car on jack stands and disconnect the shocks to see what the body does when the suspension isn't loaded. Any ideas for me?

[goodsofar]

I'm pretty new to this site and to VWs, but I'm thinking that looks like a lot of toe out in addition to the odd body angles.

[BIGBAND39]

In theory, that could be assessed and corrected with a simple measurement of the center line on the front and back of the tires and tie rod adjustments, right? No one seems to be proficient in aligning a vehicle this old around me. It does seem that would jack up the left side. Any ideas on the grill?

[goodsofar]

That's the way I've measured toe-in, but I've learned on this site that there's usually a lot more to it, whatever the subject.
I've found a lot of discussion about toe-in; front and rear.

I'm definitely not the expert.

[Wolfgangdieter]

Ask over on http://tdreplica.com/

There are a lot of faux TD replica guys there.
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CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy

[Dale M.]

Almost every fiberglass buggy has some body twist ..... Use some shim material between body and pan to twist in direction required to get proper alignment....

MY Kellison Sandpiper Roadster has almost 1.25 inch tall and about 36 inch long tapered wood shim on passenger side to get body level with chassis......

As for bumper it its metal and attached to chassis or beam, put jack under low side and force it up... Or use some means on side that is to high to pull it down....

The fixes are something the builder was ignorant about or to lazy to do...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Dale M.]

[finster]

I don't think there's anything majorly amiss here. the bumper looks bad but I suspect the mounts are skewed, bent or badly mounted. the grille might be a case of body twist or just misaligned mounting holes when assembled. I would be looking to disassemble the grille, loosen front parts and refit it while the torsion tubes are level on axle stands.
this one seems to have a similar wonky grille (see 3rd pic) but in the other direction so maybe it is easy to build it squint...
http://classiccarsexport.com/mg/119335-1952-mg-td-replica-kit-car.html

[oprn]

Twisted frame from an unintentional rough ride through the ditch?


As for the toe in, what you are seeing there is toe out on turns. Perfectly normal. Turn the wheels back straight ahead and then check for toe in.

[BIGBAND39]

Thanks for the answers! I think the grill makes the whole thing seem a lot worse than it is. I'll definitely disassemble it and try to rectify the situation. After my body guy looked at it, he could swear it's suspension and not frame related. The back of the car looks to dip in the opposite direction. Is a torsion bar adjustment advised to see if it would help? How difficult is it and can it be easily reversed? Also, where could I jack up the body safely to take suspension out of the equation? Thanks again!

[Dale M.]

Do three point support... One under center of pan just behind front torsion bar mount (at frame head) and one under each end of rear torsion bar nearest outside end of tube..... Do it on flat surface (garage floor).... IF frame is sprung, the front beams will not measure same distance from bottom of beam (at base of shock tower) to floor on each side...

If it comes down to adjusting rear torsion bars (preload) you need to verify they are both at same angle (use angle finder) when removed at attachment points at rear axle and off rear travel stops... Besure car is well supported when you do suspension work...

Somethings to consider with rear suspension...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[didget69]

I'd start with verifying that the chassis Is Not Bent.

bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[oprn]

Excellent place to start! If the frame is twisted then anything else you do to try and rectify the situation will just complicate matters further. The rear of the car looking to be out in the opposite direction confirms in my mind the twisted frame theory.

I wish we lived closer together as I spent a number of years working on the frame rack.

[rodjr]

To get a quick idea of where the trouble is, park on the best surface you can find and measure from the ground up to the pan on the same locations, both sides front and rear. Now measure through the axle center line from the ground to the bottom edge of each fender. The differences here will begin to tell you the story, and lead you to more specific area's to investigate
Even if the ground isn't level, you could put a level under the beam, and then on the side of the grill, are they leaning in the same direction approximately the same amount? probably chassis. Are they leaning opposite, or the same direction but by a significantly different amount? probably body/shim problem.

The buggy i am working on now is 1/16" high at the pan on the drivers rear, but the drivers rear fender lip is 7/16" lower. I am going to need a shim here to get the body up to level the "look".

Fiberglass is almost never really straight, grinding here, adding material there and shimming are almost guaranteed.