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GELS Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2014 Posts: 28 Location: NEW ZEALAND
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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What a great thread perello. Carry on with the updates, great info. |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:29 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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perello wrote: |
new aluminium oil cooler from cip1 is in with the green adapter seals..lets see the outcome
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good news. It's not leaking anymore _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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jays58s Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004 Posts: 2133 Location: Nor-Cal
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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perello wrote: |
perello wrote: |
new aluminium oil cooler from cip1 is in with the green adapter seals..lets see the outcome
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good news. It's not leaking anymore |
Are you using the venturi's that came with the carbs? They're bigger than what the original Solex cabs came with, and Joe Ruiz has the correct ones. That may help your bottom end. |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:55 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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jays58s wrote: |
Are you using the venturi's that came with the carbs? They're bigger than what the original Solex cabs came with, and Joe Ruiz has the correct ones. That may help your bottom end. |
But I am using original solex carbs form an okrasa engine.
As I am not using this bus much, I think it needs to do more miles to improve behaviour. However I might experiment with smaller venturis (if they exists) to see what happens.
thanks! _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7177 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Hello.
Let me get this straight.
- Youre using dual port Okrasa heads on a 1200 displacement engine, or a 1286 cc engine?
T |
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jays58s Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004 Posts: 2133 Location: Nor-Cal
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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perello wrote: |
jays58s wrote: |
Are you using the venturi's that came with the carbs? They're bigger than what the original Solex cabs came with, and Joe Ruiz has the correct ones. That may help your bottom end. |
But I am using original solex carbs form an okrasa engine.
As I am not using this bus much, I think it needs to do more miles to improve behaviour. However I might experiment with smaller venturis (if they exists) to see what happens.
thanks! |
Oh ok, I didn’t realize you had original Solex’s. I’d try to put more miles on it and see how it goes after some miles. |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Alstrup wrote: |
Hello.
Let me get this straight.
- Youre using dual port Okrasa heads on a 1200 displacement engine, or a 1286 cc engine?
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Hmm not sure as the engine was built by joe ruiz, but i would guess 1286cc as it has barrel shims.
Whats the difference...? _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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jays58s Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004 Posts: 2133 Location: Nor-Cal
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Alstrup wrote: |
Hello.
Let me get this straight.
- Youre using dual port Okrasa heads on a 1200 displacement engine, or a 1286 cc engine?
T |
The Okrasa Kit was designed for the 36hp and 40hp engines. I believe they even made the kit for 1500cc engines. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7177 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Apart from about 100 cc´s, - A lot! But when it has barrel shims it is most likely a 1286, which is good, because a 1200 cc w. Okrasa heads can´t pull the skin off of a rotten banana. The 1286 is much better, but still doesnt pull that much torque. It should however "wake up" when it passes about 2800 rpm. If it doesnt you may still have a jetting and or timing issue. Personally I would´nt reduce venturi size. What says Joe about it?
T |
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jays58s Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004 Posts: 2133 Location: Nor-Cal
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Alstrup wrote: |
Apart from about 100 cc´s, - A lot! But when it has barrel shims it is most likely a 1286, which is good, because a 1200 cc w. Okrasa heads can´t pull the skin off of a rotten banana. The 1286 is much better, but still doesnt pull that much torque. It should however "wake up" when it passes about 2800 rpm. If it doesnt you may still have a jetting and or timing issue. Personally I would´nt reduce venturi size. What says Joe about it?
T |
Barrel shims have nothing to do with engine size, only the compression ratio of the engine. |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:52 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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jays58s wrote: |
Barrel shims have nothing to do with engine size, only the compression ratio of the engine. |
Probably shim was a misnomer , they are really thick spacers.
I bought the longblock only from him, the rest was built by myself. I do agree that jetting will need to be tuned and probably the stock exhaust is not what this engine asks for.
However in general, i read SP engines have stronger low end torque than DP ones..its right? _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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jays58s Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004 Posts: 2133 Location: Nor-Cal
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:06 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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perello wrote: |
jays58s wrote: |
Barrel shims have nothing to do with engine size, only the compression ratio of the engine. |
Probably shim was a misnomer , they are really thick spacers.
I bought the longblock only from him, the rest was built by myself. I do agree that jetting will need to be tuned and probably the stock exhaust is not what this engine asks for.
However in general, i read SP engines have stronger low end torque than DP ones..its right? |
Single port definitely makes more low end torque. I’m going to leave my 36 single port just for that reason. |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Alstrup wrote: |
......you may still have a jetting and or timing issue. Personally I would´nt reduce venturi size. What says Joe about it?
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Did I do your carburetors? Even though you have the original SOLEX 32 PBIC's, the throttle shafts maybe worn and bypassing air causing rough idle and hard to balance. What about jet sizes and/or venturi's? If they are the wrong size, you will not get optimum power throughout the entire RPM range.
You have to check and verify/eliminate all the variables first rather than guessing otherwise you're going to be making adjustments that are fine and maybe causing more issues..... _________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:12 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Thanks for the answer Joe!
I will write down the jet sizes I am using to check with you guys, the carbs came from a 40hp okrasa engine, so most probably the jetting is not perfect. _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Jetting is 115 main, pump 50, idle 52.5, air correction 170 and main air correction 120
In another thread i read
"Regarding your choice of ventruis, how do you want your car to drive?
Do you prefer to step on the gas at 2K and have something happen? If so, try the 28mm venturis first. If you prefer to let all the other cars pass you by until you finally reach 4K, then go with the 32mm. Given the modest duration of your cam, I suspect that the 32mm venturis may be a bit of a mismatch. Keep in mind that Pre-A Supers came with 26mm venturis for for normal driving, and used 29mm for racing. "
Which makes me really interested to try 28mm venturis...somebody has a suggestion on where to get them?
Cheers _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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perello wrote: |
Jetting is 115 main, pump 50, idle 52.5, air correction 170 and main air correction 120 |
Jet sizes for a 1300cc Okrasa engine using Solex 32 PBIC carbs should be:
Main Jet - Gg / 115
Air correction jet - a / 240
Venturi / 24mm
Idle fuel jet - G / 50
Idle air bleed - u / 1.0
Emulsion tube - s / 23
Accelerator jet - Gp / 45
Start (choke) fuel - Gs / 120
The above of course can vary depending on compression ratio, gearing, dist., etc....
Hopes this helps. Cheers _________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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Thanks Joe!
My setup is then
Main Jet - Gg / 115
Air correction jet - a / 240
Venturi / 24mm
Idle fuel jet - G / 45
Idle air bleed - u / 1.2
Emulsion tube - s / 23
Accelerator jet - Gp / 50
Start (choke) fuel - Gs / 140
I found a soruce for smaller venturis, so I will try 22 or 20 inner and see what does it do with low rev torque _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7177 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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24 mm venturies should make the engine peak around 4500 rpm (theoreticly) I´d still say that that is just about spot on for a 1300 Okrasa.
IMHO switching to a smaller venturi will most likely not help lower rpm performance. It would be something like swopping to 28 mm PCI´s, and an Okrasa with 28 PCI´s does not run better, it just pulls less hp.
28´s on a 1200 cc is fine, or even a 1286 cc sgl port. That´s about it.
For comparison. A 22 mm venturi would make the theoretical peak around 3800 rpm. (This is of couurse all theory. But it tells a little about how much the airflow is affected by such a swop in venturi size.)
T |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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This is such a great little engine to see in your bus, Beautiful!
Surprised to see you say that Alstrup! It should be able to be jetted a little richer mainly more accelerator pump volume and pump jet size not sure that can be done with those Solex carbs? The thing to try would be the Solex PCIB's 32 carbs Abarth auxiliary venturi booster. The venturi must be too big for the jetting in the carb what with such small valves and displacement. Remember the Porsche 1600N engine only used 24mm ventures.
The 36Horse is so low on compression and all it probably needs a venturi booster. e-bay. Richer Idle jetting would help as "Mr.Okrasa" shows. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: 36hp okrasa on a bus, my first impressions |
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While assembling back I screwed this bad
If someone knows where I can source a spare please message me _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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