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Oil Leak
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I recently removed the engine for a good decrease and to try and stop some of the oil leaks (plus other maintenance). There was years of oil and dirt all over the engine making hard to trace oil leaks. The main leaks seemed to be the rear oil seal, fuel pump and generator pedestal gasket. I dealt with these and they now seem ok.

The engine is now back in and runs ok but after 50 miles I noticed oil was leaking again and a fair amount. At first glance looking underneath it looked like the rear oil was leaking again. On further inspection the leak seems to start at the top of the engine (photos below). So where is this oil leaking from? My best guess is the oil cooler?

Thoughts?
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fes
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Hmm..looks pretty dry and clean around the oil cooler housing base..
I'm understanding that you replaced the main crank shaft/flywheel seal?
Sure looks like the oil is wicking down from the top of the bellhousing at the case parting line..
Someone in the past could have pried the case apart with a screwdriver or marred the hell out of the bore for the main seal trying to get it out..these methods will almost always cause a leak
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Can the fan housing be removed with engine in? This would allow me to see easier and even run the engine to trace the leak...

The seal I replaced was the rear oil seal behind the fly wheel. It had been leaking for years...
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fes
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Joe75 wrote:
Can the fan housing be removed with engine in? This would allow me to see easier and even run the engine to trace the leak...

The seal I replaced was the rear oil seal behind the fly wheel. It had been leaking for years...


Yes..the fan shroud can be removed while the engine is still in..but after you see what a hassle it is to remove and disconnect the accessories from the decklid down to the thermostat and the realignment of everything,you'll swear that you-ll never do it this way again and it would have been easier to remove the engine in hindsight...
There is an dye additive that you can add to the oil to pinpoint where leaks are coming from..but the engine has to be relatively clean for it to work accurately
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Hmmm.

Not sure which way to go as removing the fan shroud with engine in allows me to run the engine to see where leak is but if it is as much work as you say then engine out it might be????
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my59
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

I pulled the fan shroud in the driveway once, cannot remember what the reason was, and it is a pita to get back in, let alone out.
Get some degreaser, spray that area down, and hose it off with hot water and a nozzle to increase pressure. Real pressure, you will want to use goggles. Once clean, run the car with a light and your head in there to see if it's coming out of the joint. Helps to remove decklid.
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

I am sure many moons ago I tried to remove the shroud on one of my old beetles and found it to be a nightmare.

I will do as you suggest. Clean up area and inspect again...
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my59
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

I pulled the carb and the generator to wriggle the shroud out. That was the easy part. Getting it all back in was the hard part.
Next time I dropped the engine to to a through degreasing, to clean decades of nasty off the engine. Seemed daunting, but an old VW hand supervised and it was much easier in the long run.
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

my59 wrote:
I pulled the carb and the generator to wriggle the shroud out. That was the easy part. Getting it all back in was the hard part.
Next time I dropped the engine to to a through degreasing, to clean decades of nasty off the engine. Seemed daunting, but an old VW hand supervised and it was much easier in the long run.


I did the same a few months back. It was amazing to see how much dirt and grease had built up over the years. It was impossible to see where the oil leaks were from.

I think with what people are saying a good clean of the oil leak and then a run should help me trace the leak. If not engine out again!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Joe75 wrote:

I think with what people are saying a good clean of the oil leak and then a run should help me trace the leak. If not engine out again!


Yes. Of course, once you find the leak, and determine the severity, there is another option- let it leak, and check the oil often.
I have a receipt from the 60's with a note on it saying oil leak is from pushrod tubes. Still true, and the engine has yet to be taken apart to deal with it.
It's a driver, not a museum piece.
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Would be happy to let the old girl mark her spot... The problem is she is leaking dinner plate sized pools of oil!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

That much, yeah you have to take care of it!
Get it running and start looking. My bus dumped a big puddle, turned out it was the oil pressure switch. Occasionally a valve cover gasket isn't set just right, and I know one cover is tweaked and needs to be on "just so". Since you did a seal, that's the first suspect.
Is the oil breather clear? To much crank case pressure can cause leaks in weak spots.
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

I spent some time cleaning up the oil leak and found it was mainly coming from the bell housing area. I dropped the engine back out and found that the brand new rear oil had failed after only 50 miles. Although it looked like the oil cooler could have been leaking it was not.

The new oil seal was meant to be a quality oil seal and the fly wheel looks ok? So what would cause the oil seal to fail so badly after only 50miles?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Hard to tell from the pic,but it looks like it was installed a little cocked,looks flush on the bottom (it shouldn't be we 36hp) and protruding at the top..how did you install it? with the tool?

The pic of the seal installed looks like thre's crap all over it, you say the flywheel looks good,but are you sure there's no rust,scratches and mars on the horn of it?

If the endplay is bad,this will cause the seal to fail,where the crankshaft is walking in and out of the thrust..before you put another seal in,bolt up the flywheel (235 foot pounds is fine,increase it to 250+ for final install)and check the endplay

Another thing to cause this, is the possibility of the oil relief drain being plugged,with contamination or too much case sealer..did it leak a lot while it was running? or only when the engine is shut off? How bad was the leak before you replaced the seal? was the old one the orange silicone type?
And just to clarify,this is the "front" of the engine
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Joe75 wrote:


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One obvious problem is the sealing lip is torn starting at about 8 o'clock. If this is a picture of the seal immediately after removing the flywheel, that is your problem.

You need a new seal regardless.

Ditch the red silicone too.
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Jacks
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
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Joe75
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.

It seems like I may not have fitted the seal correctly? There is mention of a tool to fit these seals. I have never seen one?

I think I will clean and fit another seal making sure it is seated 100%. The red sealant is because I could not buy the paper gasket.

The engine does not seem to have to much end float, I have seen worse! I also have no way of measuring it. It was leaking at this seal before I replaced it but there was so much old oil build up it is hard to say how bad the leak was.

It has been mentioned to check the oil relief drain. Anyone have a photo of this?

Below is the flywheel which i do not think is in to bad condition?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

Joe75 wrote:
[/img]

https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D000%2D118
This is the link to the tool..
However,that groove in the horn or "snout" here,is what`s really causing your problem,it`s shredding the seal.that combined with an improperly installed seal may be the issue,
There`s a product called "Speedi seal`",or something of the like,it`s a thin sheet metal sleeve that goes over the cone of the flywheel,I haven't used it nor nothing about it other than its supposed to form fit and eliminate that groove,Personally.I`d consider getting that flywheel turned by a machinist,or source a new one..not easy with 36HP OG flywheels..
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

fes wrote:
Joe75 wrote:
[/img]

https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D000%2D118
This is the link to the tool..
However,that groove in the horn or "snout" here,is what`s really causing your problem,it`s shredding the seal.that combined with an improperly installed seal may be the issue,
There`s a product called "Speedi seal`",or something of the like,it`s a thin sheet metal sleeve that goes over the cone of the flywheel,I haven't used it nor nothing about it other than its supposed to form fit and eliminate that groove,Personally.I`d consider getting that flywheel turned by a machinist,or source a new one..not easy with 36HP OG flywheels..

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil Leak Reply with quote

The flywheel was machined but that was for the teeth on the flywheel. The starter motor had not been disengaging for years and had done lots of damage on the flywheel teeth. I did ask them about how the 'snout' was and they said fine. It seems not....

I think this is the product you are talking about?
https://youtu.be/GjIbYMDDwMA


Not sure where I can buy that in NZ?
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