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Daddylolo Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2007 Posts: 253 Location: Sintra, Portugal
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Oil pressure defective? |
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I've noticed that everytime I turn the engine on the oil pressure red light takes some time to go off, is that a chance that my type 4 engine is having defective oil pressure? That might explain the frequent times I have had problems with hydraulic lifters that become ineffective and engine has a bad performance. What people think of this idea?
Thanxs _________________ '70 hot rod bug
'77 hawaiian bay van
'46 Buick Eight
'67 Ghia |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Please define "some time". _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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it is a common problem with the late type 4 cases. For me it happens when it sits for a couple days to a week. I THINK it is aeration where air gets whipped into a foam in the pump and doesn't make pressure. The best solution I found is to start the bus then turn it off after about 2 or 3 seconds. Then count to 10 and start it. If you don't pressure in 4 seconds turn it off and count to 10 again. Then start it and you should have pressure right away.
This happened too when I built the engine even though I pre oiled it. It would not make pressure with the plugs out so I pulled sender off the hose, aimed the hose into a bucket and had instant pressure. On a late case the pressure relief valve dumps back to the pump inlet instead of the sump. I think that any air just turns into foam and goes round and round until it gets forced out. By letting it sit 10 seconds the foam turns back to oil so it gets pressure and forces the air out. Others with late cases have this issue too. Make sure that the filters you use have an anti-drain valve in them. That helps too. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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bigbore Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003 Posts: 3296 Location: Wasilla Alaska
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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My 2L in my vanagon has done that from when I built it when I had it drop a seat on me 500 miles later I took it all the way down to look it over and put a new set of heads on it I found no falt but I still change the pump ,pressure valves and resealed it all and the problem still there I have a light and gauge just sitting over night will do it I kind-a wonder if the remote mount sender has been the cause it has been going on for two years of daily driving.
There has been no lifter problems just the annoying wait. _________________ where its cold and snowy |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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late case circulates oil back to the pump inlet. I used a tube full of a quart of oil to pressurize my new engine and it still did it. The second I removed the sender the oil shot out. I think that the pump can't push the air out so it aerates into a foam. Foam won't pressurize. Early cases dumped the surplus oil back to the sump so I think that the air got pushed out the pressure relief instead of getting sucked back into the pump. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Doesn’t Wildthings recommend running an extra quart of oil? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Daddylolo Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2007 Posts: 253 Location: Sintra, Portugal
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Please define "some time". |
as bad as 4 seconds... _________________ '70 hot rod bug
'77 hawaiian bay van
'46 Buick Eight
'67 Ghia |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Daddylolo wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
Please define "some time". |
as bad as 4 seconds... |
That's rather minor compared to some examples, you could almost call that "normal", avoid revving it for the first few seconds. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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bigbore Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2003 Posts: 3296 Location: Wasilla Alaska
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Steve maybe on to something last night I started the vanagon just to move it before that it hadn't ran for hours then this morning I started it and in 2 seconds the light was out. I will see if I can back up this test. _________________ where its cold and snowy |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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I tried an extra quart and all it did was nothing. DIdn't run cooler. Didn't get oil pressure sooner, just leaked oil if I parked on a hill. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Amskeptic Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002 Posts: 8568 Location: All Across The Country
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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aeromech wrote: |
Doesn’t Wildthings recommend running an extra quart of oil? |
Let's not do that unless we are racing on off-camber hard right corners.
Colin _________________ www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Sounds like drain back to me. I am not too familiar with the type 4 but in type 1 full flow, it happens if the filter is a wrong one or poor quality and the valve inside the filter allows drain back to happen. I have found a lot of filters that don't hold, more than do.
It helps to have a good fitting oil pump.
The only time you should or will see the (delayed oil light to go out) is first starting after an oil change or maybe if the engine was overheated then parked overnight.
Are you running synthetic motor oil but not a synthetic oil oil filter? _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Daddylolo Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2007 Posts: 253 Location: Sintra, Portugal
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Danwvw wrote: |
Sounds like drain back to me. I am not too familiar with the type 4 but in type 1 full flow, it happens if the filter is a wrong one or poor quality and the valve inside the filter allows drain back to happen. I have found a lot of filters that don't hold, more than do.
It helps to have a good fitting oil pump.
The only time you should or will see the (delayed oil light to go out) is first starting after an oil change or maybe if the engine was overheated then parked overnight.
Are you running synthetic motor oil but not a synthetic oil oil filter? |
Drain back...I will replace the filter with a other one from a VW dealer, not a aftermarket that I got but it is not the first time i do it.
I took out all hydraulic lifters and spent all day to fill them with oil again, like factory says and later refit them in the engine. After a short time with engine working they sounded like empty and empty they where when I took them off again. I read, can't remember where I read that both small holes in lifters, those on the sides, should align... is it true?
I will also measure the oil pressure tomorrow, just waiting for a friend to get me a good gauge to check it. _________________ '70 hot rod bug
'77 hawaiian bay van
'46 Buick Eight
'67 Ghia |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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the type 4 late motors do this. It is the case design. Probably responsible for the hydraulic lifters getting air too but it keeps the oil in the galleries cooler. The correct filter helps but won't stop it because it isn't caused by no oil or drain back. It appears caused by a tiny bit of air that recirculates and causes the pump to whip the oil into up an aerated foam. If one just turns it on, lets it runs 2 or 3 seconds then turns it off, and counts to 10 slowly and restarts it, the pressure will be there almost right away. But if one lets the froth go round and round and the pump stays aerated, it can be almost an indefinite wait. It only happens when these buses sit a long period. Park it over night and it won't happen. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50260
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pressure defective? |
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Amskeptic wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
Doesn’t Wildthings recommend running an extra quart of oil? |
Let's not do that unless we are racing on off-camber hard right corners.
Colin |
Got around 1/2 a million miles of driving my air cooled VW this way. Wouldn't run them any other way. Started doing it when I had a problem with a fairly new factory engine that would suddenly blow all the oil out when the oil had about 1500 miles on it. Figured the extra oil gave me a chance to catch the falling oil level before the pressure dropped to where the light came on. Once I determined the problem (a case of 24 cans of oil without sufficient anti foaming agent), I just kept running the extra quart +/- and have suffered no ill effects, except some smoking when parked on extreme side hills (think San Fransisco). |
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