Type 87 or 877 beetle 4x4 front diff housing

[geneL3c]

I don't claim to be an expert either, but Operation Torch, the Allied invasion of
North Africa in November 1942 and the North African Campaign of 1942 -1943 have long been an area of particular interest. We have a 1942 Aeronca L-3 artillery spotter aircraft painted in desert camouflage and Operation Torch markings that we have displayed at airshows since 1991 and is the reason for the Typ 87 clone to be used as a " captured vehicle ". Captured VWs were quite popular during the war and there are many photos to prove it. Our " clone will be painted " dunklegelb ", dark yellow known to be used by DAK, possibly with the DAK palm tree on the door, but there is no way I would put a swastika on anything ! My information indicates that most if not all Typ 87s were rag tops which is why I spent the time and effort to find our '55 sunroof donor. You may be correct to assume that the officer in front of the car photo you have might be SS, as there was also a version of Off Road Beetles known as the Typ 92SS, made specifically for that notorious band of cut throats and war criminals. It is my understanding that Rommel would not tolerate the " ethnic cleansing " so widespread in other theatres of operation by German forces.

[geneL3c]

After looking at the photo you refer to ( missed it first time around ), I would say it most likely is a Typ 82e Off Road Beetle judging by the lack of the wider Kronprinz wheels and sand tires and no rag top.

[Bruce]

[Bruce]

[geneL3c]

Bruce, One thing I've learned in historic research is not to make conclusions that something was or wasn't a fact, since recorded history is constantly being revised and rewritten. I was told early on in the restoration of our airplane that the type was NEVER used in North Africa and several years later a veteran Liaison pilot who served in Fifth Army as Air Officer sent me a photo of an Aeronca L-3 being turned over to a Free French artillery battalion at Sidi Bel Abess ( sp ? ). To say that the Typ 87 was never used by DAK, when there are numerous references and model interpretations of the type, although admittedly so far with no photographic proof, would seem premature if a photo does eventually turn up.
I would go so far as to say that it MIGHT have been used, pending any supporting proof. Also, it is my understanding that most if not all wartime VWs were delivered from the factory in matte black and painted in theatre in whatever appropriate colour would be used. Out replica will follow that theory with only the exterior being dunklegelb. Several photos describe paint colors as " white wash " over the original colour. I'm always careful to choose my words and not make statements that will embarrass me later.

[a1steaksauce]

[geneL3c]

Perhaps I should clarify my statement concerning colour. It should read " Sedan bodied vehicles apparently left the factory in matte black ". The fact that photos of the Typ 87 in DAK use have been elusive, I haven't seen any supporting, definitive evidence that they weren,t either. Are you happy now ?

[codemachinist]

[a1steaksauce]

[geneL3c]

According to several different sources currently in print, approximately 669 to 800 " Off Road Beetles ", sedan bodies on Kubelwagen chassis were produced out of the total of about 65,000 Kublewagens made between 1941 - 1945. What documentation supports your claims of " only post war production " ?

[a1steaksauce]

[geneL3c]

I would suggest you check your sources, the Typ 87, 4 - wheel drive chassis with sedan body is listed in the tally of wartime production, lol.

[a1steaksauce]

[geneL3c]

Open your horizons and Google Typ 87 in North Africa, and see for yourself, unless of course you don't like to be wrong.

[a1steaksauce]

[geneL3c]

If you'll take the time to reference and read through Chapter # 12, " Typ 87 Kommandeurwagen ", you will find a full description of its manufacture and use.
A total of 382 built, most going to the Afrika Korps. Thanks for providing the supporting information you said did not exist.
Congratulations on finally doing your research.

[a1steaksauce]

[geneL3c]

I guess there is no point at which you're going to accept anything but your own opinion, since " books rarely get it right ". It was the information that you provided that contradicts your claims. The Typ 87 is clearly described as 4 WD and distinct from the 2 WD Typ 82E. I'm quite clear on the distinction between 2WW and 4WD. Bravo on your own proof.

[a1steaksauce]

[codemachinist]