Door hinge to door rivet source?

[Bulli Klinik]

Does anyone know the size/spec and availability of the rivets used to secure the hinge to the door?

Thanks!
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I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[MoPor]

No. I ended up buying some button head socket screws instead after repairing a torn door.
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Matt

'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S

[Bulli Klinik]

That's a good idea, but I'd really like an authentic look as it's for a customer's Cabriolet.

I'm sure that there is a rivet available from a non-Porsche supplier which is comparable. I was just trying to avoid an hours of research for...a rivet.

Any other takers?

Thanks!
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[_Trevor_]

Ok I’ll try and offer some insight as I’ve drilled out and replaced a few.

Original door hinge rivets are approx 8mm, see pics below. 7.92 is from a 58 Cab I’m doing the metal work on and the 8.05 is from my 57 Coupe.

I searched high and low and could not find an exact replacement with a 8mm head and the correct size shank. Here’s the closest I could find, more pics:

What I did was turn down the ones I found using a drill and a file.

Here they are installed on the 58 Cab (with door hinge pin bushings).

On my 57, I used button head allen socket bolts and welded up the Allen head socket once installed. I only choose this method because I had already put the door skin on and didn’t have acces to hold a bucking bar against the rivet. Using this method I TIG welded the nut on the backside to the bolt, so there’s no way it’s coming loose.

Lastly, if you’re asking about door hinge rivets your probably elbows deep into a full door repair. You may want to read this thread that I’ve posted to on the 356 Registry. Getting the door hinges aligned is CRITICAL to proper function of the door. http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10088

Ok, really lastly... I had to buy a box of maybe 50 or so of the rivets that I turned down. I’d be happy to mail you some to use on your door repair if you want, free of charge.
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www.trevorgatesmetalwerks.com

[Bulli Klinik]

Trevor, that is exactly the information I was looking for! It really saves me a lot of legwork in finding the rivets.

Thanks for the offer of sending me a few rivets to do the door, but I actually have 4 doors to do. Do you recall the source for the rivets you bought and did you use any special tools to peen them? (Other than a rivet gun) These are unusual as the inside of the door has the domed head which matches the outside. They are a pretty substantial rivet. Did you heat them cherry hot prior to setting or did you do them cold?

Thanks again for any information and I will definitely be using the hinge alignment jig you've shown.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[_Trevor_]

You’re welcome.

On the 4 doors you’re doing, are you doing the upper hinges also? If yes, you must also be re-skinning the door.

I think I sourced the rivets from McMaster Carr.

I set them cold and used an air chisel and a custom made bucking bar.

On the hinge alignment rod... use a solid steel rod so it’s stiff and you can’t bend it easy - no brake tubing. And, make sure the rod glides SUPER easy through both hinges. I can’t stress this enough, seriously! Also look for cracks in the sheeetal around the hinges once you have the doors in bare metal. See the pic with the red arrow, that’s a crack that I had to weld up.

Another piece of advice, if you have to move a hinge from where it came from the factory to get the rod to slide through SUPER easy, move it. This pic shows how much I moved a hinge from its factory location to get the rod to glide through SUPER easy.

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www.trevorgatesmetalwerks.com

[copellos]

I could make them

[Bulli Klinik]

Trevor,

So far I've begun work on one door for the Cabriolet. I'm re-skinning the lower section due to rust and poor previous repairs. It looks like the upper hinges are good which makes me want to match the lower rivets to the top. After looking at it closer, it appears that the rivet heads go inside the door and the outer dome is a result of the shape of the setting tool. I imagine that makes the length of the rivet and the shape of the setting tool crucial in order to get the shape I'm after.

John,

Thanks for the offer, but I believe I can modify the rivets locally. If I run into problems I'll be sure to contact you.

This is the back side of the lower hinge:

_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[_Trevor_]

Here’s the measurement you’re looking for.

Yes the rivets were originally dome’d on the inside also, but don’t kook out over the shape of the rivet inside the door. I don’t care, as long as they are functional and look the same from the outside (the side you can see). It’s hard to even get a picture of the inside of the door with the interior door panel off, but here is what the rivets look like when set with a flat bit.

Here’s a pic of the tools I used on the battery box tow hook rivets, same principle though - dish the tool so the rivet head that you care about getting right doesn’t get flattened.

My offer still stands, I’ve got a few extra.

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www.trevorgatesmetalwerks.com

[Bulli Klinik]

Trevor, thanks again for all of the detailed information for this repair. I'll take you up on your offer of the rivets. I'll send you a PM with the details.

I took your advice and put together an alignment tool to assist in getting the hinges where they need to be. Mine, like yours, were out of alignment prior to disassembly, which resulted in a similar crack.

My alignment tool is a piece of 5/16" round bar which I chucked up in a drill to dress the ends and smooth all the mill scale off. I was pleasantly surprised that it was a nice, light press fit into the hinges. I used 5/16" shaft collars to set the distance between the hinges so that all goes back where it should. I'll do whatever adjusting is necessary to get the rod to spin freely prior to riveting.

You can see how the rod is just off on the upper hinge:

Resulting cracks from misalignment.

_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[_Trevor_]

I put the rivets in the mail today.

Glad to hear the alignment rod to hinge hole is a good fit, one step (bushings) you don’t have to do.
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www.trevorgatesmetalwerks.com

[Bulli Klinik]

Thanks again! I'll update once work progresses.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[Bulli Klinik]

Just a follow up on the door hinge rivets and installation. The rivets from Trevor worked out well. I installed them with the domed head of the rivet on the inside of the door as that's what was done on this Cab. I used a 4x rivet gun with a concave setting tool on the domed head of the rivet and a flat bucking bar, then used the concave setting tool on the outside with a bucking bar inside to give the flattened portion a bit of dome shape. It's not 100% authentic, but I'm pleased with how it turned out.

A challenging repair made a little easier thanks to the Samba. Thanks for the help and rivets, Trevor!
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[roy mawbey]

Mike,

Been following your door repair work and the help you received in doing it.
You have done a super job on that. Made me happy to realise my door hinges are still in excellent original condition.

Not easy at all doing that, let alone the re-skinning.

Roy
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Roy
RHD356A super75 106954

[Bulli Klinik]

Thanks, Roy. The door repairs are definitely challenging. The lower skin is currently tacked up. A long weld and plenty of hammer work lie ahead today!

_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[_Trevor_]

You’re welcome Mike. Glad it is working out and looks like a quality repair.

If I can offer one more tip, use this low crown dolly (1068), made by Martin, when you go to planish the weld and back up your hammer. You’ll need the low crown as opposed to a flat dolly.

https://www.tinmantech.com/products/hand-tools/body-fender/martin-tool-auto-body-spoons-dollies/
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www.trevorgatesmetalwerks.com

[Bulli Klinik]

Good advice for everyone, Trevor. Always use the dolly which most closely matches the crown. I've gotten into the habit of checking crown with a profile gauge prior to selecting a dolly, lower anvil for the wheel and lower anvil for the planishing hammer. I also made a sweep of the profile of the door to make sure that it goes back to where it should be.

When I cut the lower portion of the skin off, the lower edge curled back toward the inside of the door. It was a bit of a challenge to get the edge pushed up and tacked to the replacement panel. I started tacking with gas but soon found that the edges wanted to separate once the torch was applied. I finished tacking it with MIG and dressed the weld nugs down prior to the torch.

I'll post up once it's metal finished.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[RolandD]

If I may be so bold, I would suggest using a pneumatic nibbler, guided by a straightedge trim off diseased section. IR made a nice one.

Crazy Roland

[Bulli Klinik]

Hi Roland. My technique is to make the lower skin. Spray or wipe machinist's dye where the cut is to be made to make the line more visible. Clamp the replacement part in place and scribe the line. Final cuts are always done with hand tools and finished with a body file. For TIG or gas welding the fit must be near perfect with no gaps.

Powered tools have their place, but not for final cuts, at least not in my shop.
Make a copy of the part.

Scribe then trim file and fit.

Weld.

Metal finish.

Always like that and in that order. Most of the time.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[RolandD]

Forgive me, but I am more pragmatic, what ever does the best job. The nibbler can cut without bending or distorting like a tin snips.

Crazy Roland