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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| Evil_Fiz wrote: |
| They need to be entertaining as well as informative (who doesn't love the Ghia Pet thread.) |
Thanks  I would have to say purists!
Here's an idea for your chassis rigidity that I found mentioned in the HBB off-road threads...
http://www.acmecarco.com/berrien-buggy/fiberglassbuggies/dune-buggy-chassis/genesis-chassis
This is basically what I was suggesting & check it out, somebody makes it... just not for a Ghia.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| Evil_Fiz wrote: |
| Onceler wrote: |
| I'm not trying to clog up your thread with useless information that doesn't answer your question, but I guess that's what I'm doing. |
We can't take these threads too seriously. They need to be entertaining as well as informative (who doesn't love the Ghia Pet thread.) Some of the best moments in threads are when they get completely derailed by us acting like a bunch of 5th graders.
| Onceler wrote: |
| ...I think skills like rebuilding a engine or transmission can be acquired through media ( books, forums, videoes etc.). However 3D processes like metal work and filler work are best demonstrated 1 on 1. Even just watching someone who's proficient in full 3D presence is a real eye opener, but actively being shown what to do is even better. |
Mechanical processes are like theoretical or quantum physics, it’s all math, if the answer fits the equation then the process will work. Metal working is more like applied physics or cause and effect. The problem is that you need to thoroughly understand the effect before you can successfully apply the cause.
| Onceler wrote: |
| I just wonder if there is a class about metal working that's available in your area? Best would be if there was an expert you could work out a deal to come teach you on your actual Ghia? |
I have looked locally for welding and panel beating classes but have not had any luck. Apparently Jacksonville, FL is not a hot bed of metal fabrication and hot rodding. I now have my wife, who is a wiz at internet searches, looking into options for me.
Now for the good news: 
I managed to make significant progress yesterday. I took the advice Mellow Yellow 74 provided, and the suggestion from TDCTDI to look into shrinking disks and did some more research. I found the following:
- The shrinking disk is ideal for removing ripples
- A stud welder with a shrinking tip can be very effective
- A high crown dolly works well for raising low spots (contrary to what most info on the net will tell you)
What I did
- I used the high crown dolly ($30:00 Harbor Freight body hammer set) behind the low spots and was able to raise them significantly. I only have body hammers but since the damage is close to the wheel opening I was able to use a flat file as a slapper. I placed the dolly on the peak of the low spot (when viewed from the backside of the panel,) with the radius arc vertically, and slapped the low spot with the file oriented vertically while working the it laterally across the face of the dolly and the width of the indentation. I used medium force blows from the file to minimize the risk of going too far. Since the low spots ran vertically about six inches I relocated the dolly along the indentation and repeated the steps above. This got the low spots up about 90%
- Since I only have a MAP gas torch, and it caused the broad area heating that got me in trouble in the first place, I gave the stud welder a try. I don’t believe a shrinking tip is available that fits the Harbor Freight stud welder so I may have to make one using a copper button head screw. I took a chance and simply used the stud welder as is. I lined up the copper stud tip with the crown on the high spots, held the body hammer in my trigger hand, gave the welder a ~1 Sec. burst, and quickly gave the hot spot several light, flat taps. After repeating this process MANY. MANY time, the high spots shrank by about 90% as well. I tried the torch once more, getting a dime sized spot cherry red, but got bad results and had to fix them with the stud welder again.
- The panel was now much flatter but had three low ripples and a large distortion which I could not easily identify. In a moment of clarity I took a peek at the panel from the inside. Running my hand along the inside of the panel I realized the distortion was a low spot which ran horizontally from the ripples towards the front of the car. I then used the high crown dolly process to get the panel back to an “almost correct” profile. The next step is to repair the rust damage at the wheel arch and then either make or buy a shrinking disk to address the ripples.
As Onceler stated above, it a “you need to do it to understand it” kind of thing.
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Emil |
Wow! You should really be proud, to do any metal work without a personal mentor is no easy feat, I know I tried and failed miserably, lol. Keep up with the stick-to-it-ivness.
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:27 am Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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OOOH FANCY, I like it. The downside is that is adds ground clearance and I want to go in the other direction. It does however offer some useful engineering options. I am shooting for about 4" of ground clearance at the rockers and lower nose edge. That way I get a lower CG without worrying about curbs and parking blocks.
My car will be strictly street. it will not be auto-crossed or dragged, at least not until my son gets a hold of it in eight years. I am only looking to improve street performance, i.e. corners, highway stability and predictability, and off ramp clover leaves. Along with the longitudinal tubing I am/was considering adding a hoop under the dash, maybe triangulated with the beam, and a Stylized and padded flat, twin tube, triangulated roll bar (think 1969 GT500, only functional.) No firm plans yet, just ideas. I will need more engineering input before I settle on a plan.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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In the spirit of full disclosure I have to admit that I am mostly clueless, most of the time, about what I am doing with my project. I remain that way until after spinning my wheels for several days trying to figure out a problem I wake up one morning WAY TOO EARLY, can't fall back asleep, then have an epi-fone on how to solve the problem. This is one such story.
I have finally settled on building a tip-over jig so I can get work done on the nether regions of the body (I can't remember if I wrote about this already and am too lazy to look back. A search did not return anything.) I plan to attach the jig to the Napoleon hat pan mounting points and the rear body to pan mounting points. I was measuring up side down at the Napoleon hat using my calipers and then guessing where to drill on some scrap angle iron. I spent several days either going to far or not far enough. Then, you guessed it, I woke up at 5:30 this morning (90 Min. before I needed to) and had the idea of creating templates in SketchUP, Printing them, transferring the measurements to a paint stirring stick, Drilling, and finally test fitting.
I was working under the assumption that the screw holes were 30mm apart. I made templates ranging from 28mm to 32mm on center. It turns out that was a good decision because the mounting screws for the pan to Nap hat are 32mm apart. Once I had it working with the paint stick I repeated the steps with the angle iron and now have one side of the equation working. The next head scratcher will be to figure out the distance between the two Nap hat mounting points so I can drill mounting holes on two ends of the angle iron and mount it to the body.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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So 1-1/4"? The Germans knew when to use real imperial measurements when it mattered. Like they say, there's only 2 types of countries, those that use the metric system, and those that have been to the moon.
Just messin around, good info.
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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I made a bit more progress today on the tip-over jig measurements. I got lucky and the measurements I took between the two inside screws on the Napoleon hat mounting points were correct on the first try. The final dimensions are a combination of metric and "country that went to the moon" measurements.
The measurements are as follows:
Between screws on each side = 32mm on center (1 5/16")
Between inside screws (side to side) = 25 1/16" on center (636.5875, probably 637mm)
Screw hole diameter = 7/16" (11mm)
I am working on updates for the measured pan drawing to include these measurements as well as measurements provided by forum member Peter D
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| Onceler wrote: |
So 1-1/4"? The Germans knew when to use real imperial measurements when it mattered. Like they say, there's only 2 types of countries, those that use the metric system, and those that have been to the moon.
Just messin around, good info. |
We wouldn’t have gotten to the moon if we didn’t get the Third Reich’s best rocket engineer.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/history/vonbraun/bio.html
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Onceler
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Onceler wrote: |
So 1-1/4"? The Germans knew when to use real imperial measurements when it mattered. Like they say, there's only 2 types of countries, those that use the metric system, and those that have been to the moon.
Just messin around, good info. |
We wouldn’t have gotten to the moon if we didn’t get the Third Reich’s best rocket engineer.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/history/vonbraun/bio.html |
Yeah I know, I actually strictly use the metric system at work and wrenching. Anytime I deal with pipe fitters or millwrights, they ask me to convert to inches and remind me of the old moon joke, it's all in good humor
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1972 Karmann Ghia |
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xzener
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2006
Posts: 1777
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Born and raised in USA. But am proud to say I've been using the metric system (VW's) most of my life. It is much easier to guess than standard. I always grab the wrong tools at work. 1/2 and 7/16 are so close. 13mm is standard with VW. When in doubt... 13mm. Am I right??
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Clarification:
I have always admired and appreciated German ingenuity and engineering. My "went to the moon" comment was meant in fum. If I had a cool tape measure like the one pictured below from user Peter D, I would have done the whole thing in Metric.
I am "math challenged" so the Metric system makes way more sense to me than the Imperial system. There is only one "small" unit in Metric and everything is Base 10. The imperial system is all over the place with Macro measurements based around 12 and micro measurements based primarily around denominators based on 8; lets not even get into thousandths of an inch. (Yes it's actually all based on "2" but you get the point)
I'm with XZener, a 13mm wrench, $.50, and a rubber band and your back in business. Metric for the win 
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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Evil_Fiz
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:57 am Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
Did you ever read about the Mars Climate Orbiter? The same country that landed on the moon also crashed on Mars on account of a mixup between contractors. NASA specifed using metric but Lockheed was with that other system. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
That sort of mistake is right up there with fuel filters in a VW engine compartment.
Nicholas.
(....had to tie it back to a VW reference there  ) |
Double DOH!
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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KGCoupe
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Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| xzener wrote: |
| Born and raised in USA. But am proud to say I've been using the metric system (VW's) most of my life. It is much easier to guess than standard. I always grab the wrong tools at work. 1/2 and 7/16 are so close. 13mm is standard with VW. When in doubt... 13mm. Am I right?? |
When you stop to consider that 13mm converts to 0.512 inches, I guess you could actually say "When in doubt.... 13mm or 1/2".
Am I right?
BTW - 7/16 inches also happens to conveniently convert to 11.112 mm, so you may as well just replace those 7/16" and 1/2" work wrenches with 11mm and 13mm wrenches. |
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Sometimes good fortune throws a favor your way. This was one such weekend. What would have been an episode fraught with frustration and the finest blue words this side of Lenny Bruce turned into two days of success. Yesterday I got lucky and hit my mark on the first try. Today I took even greater care to measure very carefully, perfectly mark my drill points, expertly punch a starter dimples in the correct spot on the metal, free-hand drill a perfectly centered pilot hole over the dimple, and then proceed to skew one of the final holes by about 2mm to the inside I once again got lucky and nailed it on the first try. I now have the front and read angle iron cross bars that will be used to mount the plywood quarter-rounds and the supporting 2x6s for the tip-over jig. Next comes the easy part, cutting wood and screwing it together.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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c21darrel
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
| Is the Tip-over for the pans or for when the body is on? A pan you can just tilt up on its side, with or without wheels, tires, front beam, rear trans.... |
It is for the body only. I want to strip and prep the underside, as well as perform some repairs in the luggage area, and it is a pain to do it while working overhead. I have tried it and it is exhausting on the arms. I have seen a rotisserie that uses the Napeleon hat as a mount point so the only questionable part is the rear mounting point. My current plan involves a 1.5" angle iron bolted to the two body/pan mounting points that get bolted from bellow and a tab on the cross bar that bolts to the rear-most heater channel/pan mounting point. I will also be attaching a piece of cut down 2x8 to the cross bar and body in the up side down "V" cavity. I will put a drawing together in an effort to get feedback and a sanity check.
At the moment the pan is on its side against the garage wall. I have two low, rolling saw horses for the pan to rest on when I need to work on it.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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NEVER MIND... >>>  <<<
I put together this rendering of my idea and immediately saw the next entry in the "Smashed up / Wrecked / Accidents in VWs" thread.
On to my next "great" idea At least I have the rotisserie plans Porsche Dave gave me.
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Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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sputnick60
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:26 am Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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I have considered all those options. My issues with the metal fabrication part are three fold: poor welding skills, cost of steel for a unitasker (this may be the only resto I do,) and a long haul to go get the steel in a vehicle not suited for transporting it. I have a few extra marbles rolling around in my head right now. If no new options present themselves I will probably go with the tilt rotisserie Porsche Dave built for his low light. I will cut and tack it together then get a welder to finish it for me.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't such a tree hugger but I hate wasting resources. It will get figured out and progress will continue. I am open to all feedback, either discouraging or encouraging.
Thanks,
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12861
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:56 am Post subject: Re: The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Check Clist for scrap steel, prices are so bad right now that you can pick up stuff from scrappers pretty cheap at the moment.
If you're lucky, you might find a deal on a small round livestock corral.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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