Author |
Message |
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:01 pm Post subject: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Hello Everyone,
First post, but also I've been building this a ton over the last year and posting stuff up on instagram. That said I thought why not try and post some stuff up here too (see what the professionals think)
Link
A little history of whats above, I bought the car with a good body but completely blown motor and steering/suspension/brakes held together with tape and hope. Not a bad little car now but undrivable when I first got it.
It now has the following:
CB Performance Aluminum block
Forged Scat 78.8 crank
“Forged” 90.5 Mahle pistons
Scat C45 cam
1.25 ratio rockers
Scat H beam rods
Scat Super-D heads
Dual valve springs with titanium retainers
CB Performance high strength aluminum push rods
Type 2 oil cooler and welded Fan shroud
Bosch Alternator conversion
CB performance 26mm full flow oil pump
2023CC @ 9.5:1 compression
Vintage Speed Exhaust
EMPI disk conversion, and drop spindles
2" narrowed beam
6" widened rims from Deepveez here on Samba
I call it an oddball because its a 72 with a swing axle, not sure how it got that but maybe it wasn't completely phased out when they started building IRS or a swapped pan, who knows.
More to come as I finish and fix other stuff.
@Mods: If this isn't the correct location for build threads please let me know
Last edited by SingallZ on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:12 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4419 Location: Stuck in Ohio
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
neil68 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007 Posts: 3440 Location: Calgary, Canada
|
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Canadian “standard” swingaxle Beetles were sold alongside IRS models up into the mid-70’s. My brother’s 71 Beetle was bought new from the dealer in Red Deer, AB and was swingaxle with a Z-bar equalizer spring.
Your 72 is a beauty! Where are you located? _________________ Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TX-73 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2013 Posts: 1133 Location: Texas
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
joey1320 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: Cleveland, OH
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
|
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
SingallZ wrote: |
I call it an oddball because its a 72 with a swing axle, not sure how it got that but maybe it wasn't completely phased out when they started building IRS or a swapped pan, who knows. |
You are being swayed by all the "Americans" ('Mericans?) on this forum.
The LAST US-spec Beetle with a SA was the '68 model year.
But outside the US the SA lived on all the way until 2003 when the last Mexi STD Beetle rolled off the assembly line. It was a SA.
I'm certain that every autostick came with an IRS transmission.
In Europe the 1302 SB came with a 1300cc engine and the 1302S SB came with a 1600cc. The smaller engine might have had a SA transmission as well?? Maybe someone outside the US can confirm?
My '75 1300 (STD) Beetle in Japan was a SA with a 1600cc carburated DP engine. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Thanks everyone for the clarification on the swing-axle, figured it was probably something like VW just using up what was left in the parts bin
neil68 wrote: |
Canadian “standard” swingaxle Beetles were sold alongside IRS models up into the mid-70’s. My brother’s 71 Beetle was bought new from the dealer in Red Deer, AB and was swingaxle with a Z-bar equalizer spring.
Your 72 is a beauty! Where are you located? |
I'm in Alberta
Lingwendil wrote: |
Gorgeous car.
What foglights are those? I like them! |
They're off a 39 ford, but apparently they were also sold at various auto-parts stores across the US until the 50's |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
EFI time! (from CBperformance) Should make for better low end torque, top end power, throttle response, and engine protection. I've hoarded together enough for a full conversion with sequential injection and spark, proper ITBs, LS2 coils, o2 sensors, MAP, ATS, Head temp sensor, TPS, Fuel Pressure sensor, Voltage sensor, Crank position sensor, Cam position sensor, and IACV (for the cold starts).
I know everyone will probably be like why spend so much, carbs are great! I've never owned a car with carbs. I'm a programmer, I grew up tuning Subaru's & Honda's, and this is something I've wanted to do before I bought the car.
Many many updates to come |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Dug into this over the week end and the thing that spawned all this was a crappy oil leak turned out to be a leaky rear main seal. I followed the shop manual on seal depth but its all performance parts with weird requirements so I'll set the new one deeper next time.
Leaky rear main seal
Pretty fly artwork
because you can never have enough power, I'm going to 2.1L with lightweight AA forged 92mm pistons
Still working on getting them all balanced
Also to quell my paranoia on 92 pistons I'm going to a thicker walled cylinder barrels (94 walls)
EFI coming I'm going to re-do all the wiring (also need to fix this shit), every time I put on the headlights or indicators not good things happen
When I took the old pistons out I noticed this, so I split the block, only one lifter was destroyed, so either bad lifter or bad break-in. Also old lifters were SCAT lube a lobe lifters on a SCAT C45 cam (for others if they're wondering)
The original plan was to not tear into the block and only modify the pistons/heads. As part of that I'm moving to beehive springs, my hope is a little more spring pressure than singles but not as much as what I was running with duals
And go to a much, much, much lighter lifter CB performance lifter with a milder Engle cam
more to come |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Tons of updates for the next few weeks, starting with the heads. I got a new set of heads. I never liked the Scad Big D's and the cost to fly cut them out to 94mm pus reseat the valve was just under the cost of just getting new heads so I upgraded a little.
New slightly more expensive but totally worth it heads CB Performance Panchito 044's
Scat Super D heads. Almost no air was getting through them, and the casting look like shit. (you get what you pay for)
Head the heads flycut from CB for $50 to 58cc, looking to run 9:1 compression
Also, I've always like the single groove CB's valves have. New valves vs old, the single groove are the new ones and will secure the keepers a little better
Going to beehive single springs. I'm not going to rev this like crazy so this is a nice compromise between dual springs and single springs
Also checked the installed height on the springs. I didn't do this last time and was probably floating a little
Adding a shim to get it within spec (1.70"), this will also save the spring seat with wear over time (hard metal spring vs aluminum meh, spring vs hard metal shim yay)
Next up clean out the valve guides. Used a gun barrel cleaner, was perfect.
With any new set of valves I've always lapped them in, just in case something was damaged and to ensure proper startup
Little wider band then I'd like, but still a good seal (out of the box LEFT, lapped RIGHT)
Also these heads have a provision for a head temp sensor on them so drilled out the post, tapped it, and added the sensor
Finished product vs out of the box
So much more to come |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Syncronaut Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2004 Posts: 24 Location: Trondheim, Norway
|
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
ashman40 wrote: |
In Europe the 1302 SB came with a 1300cc engine and the 1302S SB came with a 1600cc. The smaller engine might have had a SA transmission as well?? Maybe someone outside the US can confirm? |
All (European made) Super Beetles came with IRS, and the European "S" models had 1600 engines and disk brakes. The swing axle rear end was kept on all models with torsion bar front suspension, except for cars with auto trans.
The car in this post was known as "1200" here in Europe, and it was the frugal base model with a 1200 engine and not much in the luxury department (if any Beetle was...). These 1200 Beetles have many fans today, probably because they are quite few and far between. _________________ Gorm |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Rebuild continues
Cam thrust setting:
Grinding down rings 0.014 and 0.016 for top and bottom compression rings
Test fitting and setting piston deck height/clearance
Sealing up the bottoms of the barrels (I use permatex copper for high heat considering where its going)
hmmm sooo satisfying
Half the block assembled
Test fitting new type 4 barrel cooling vs old type 1 (I can see why they made the change)
NEW TYPE 4
OLD TYPE 1 (total shit)
To get there I had to finish up cutting the push rods to length and setup valve train geometry
Cutting push rods, went to dual taper aluminum, and I cut them with a quality pipe cutter
Bashing the ends into the rods, I use old lifters as anvils (and a hammer):
finished end:
Finalizing lift at the valve, had to goto 1:1.1 ratio rockers to get lift to around 0.460" inch. If I went to my 1:1.25 ratio's it jumped to 0.540"inch lift at the valve (max is 0.520") and I don't want to do any more machine work on these:
Cleaning and assembling the new rockers, also getting the spacing of the rockers on the rods correct. You use shims between each rocker to get it within 0.005" - 0.007":
Nerdy valve train weights, this should be very quiet, less floaty, and revv'y
OLD:272.45 vs NEW:203.99 == 68.46 gram savings per valve (X 8 valves and total weight savings of 547.68g across the entire valve train) ;D
Also just a shot of my work bench, spend a lot of time standing/sitting here:
Complete long block assembled (yay), I can finally move on to fun stuff.
Next up wiring:
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
|
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
[quote="Syncronaut"]
ashman40 wrote: |
The swing axle rear end was kept on all models with torsion bar front suspension, except for cars with auto trans.
|
Is that correct? I thought swing axles remained - post 68 (for Eur/RoW) - only on 1200 Beetles and Mexican/Brazilian models. I thought 1300, 1500, and 1600 Beetles (not supers) did get the trailing arm rear suspension - even in Eur.
Byas _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pittwagen Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
In Canada standard beetles only came with the swing axle until the end of 1973 production. Gearing was the same as the IRS axle. IRS rear axles became standard in 1974. An exception was the Basic 110 beetle in 1975 if I remember correctly.
So here you go a January 10, 1973 production beetle with alternator and paper element air filter that became standard in January 1973.. 1600 DP. I believe I am the second owner. 66,000 miles since new. The 1972 baja wheels were optional in 1973. I have an original accessory brochure.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
pittwagen wrote: |
In Canada standard beetles only came with the swing axle until the end of 1973 production. Gearing was the same as the IRS axle. IRS rear axles became standard in 1974. An exception was the Basic 110 beetle in 1975 if I remember correctly.
So here you go a January 10, 1973 production beetle with alternator and paper element air filter that became standard in January 1973.. 1600 DP. I believe I am the second owner. 66,000 miles since new. The 1972 baja wheels were optional in 1973. I have an original accessory brochure.
|
I wish this was a little more public knowledge, had a few awkward fights with parts people who tell me "you got a pan swapped car if you have a swing axle past 68", even though the pan serial matches the vin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Productive afternoon of test fitting the tins, cutting & swearing, swearing & cutting...
Also got the exhaust on, looking forward to hearing what equal length sounds like.
,
Once I've got it running I'll wrap them |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pittwagen Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: North of the 49th parallel
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
My numbers all match. In fact the engine and trans have never been out of the car.
About this time in 1973 we were looking for a new car after having frozen our butts in a 65 deluxe. So we went into one of the VW dealers in Winnipeg and saw one almost identical to the one above. Looked down under and saw the swing axle and noted that the rear axle was different than that of a friend who had a 72 Super Baha SE.
We were about to go for the Standard and the saleman said "we have a special model coming in a couple of months that you might want to wait for".
And this was the special model. Still have it. Love your car, by the way.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Finally moving on to the fun/unique stuff. I plan to mock up the entire engine then, fit the wiring loom, vacuum lines, and fuel lines. After thats done I'll tear it back down paint the engine tin and exhaust (powder coat if I can) then re-assemble and toss it in the car.
New throttle body with injection ports
Assembled unit with air temp sensor installed
Had to go with a different intake manifold setup to accommodate the fuel rails, hopefully this throttle bar linkage won't warp in the heat
Hall-effect cam sensor to support sequential ignition (LS3 coils)
Crank sensor, this was a pain to fit and still needs adjustment (fiddling with to get 0.020" distance between the reluctor wheel and sensor). Also had to fit up the serpentine belt for the fan/alternator
What I've got so far
and the permanent fixture next to where I work
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingallZ Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2017 Posts: 27 Location: Canada'Eh
|
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Oddball 72 Standard Canadian Beetle Build |
|
|
Completed the engine bay fuel lines and breather lines
AN all the things:
CAD mock up of dimensions of the engine bay firewall. Not much room behind in-front of the engine. Used this to position the coils, regulator and breather lines.
I haven't made up brackets for the lines yet, don't want them rubbing on the back
Here you can see nothing is routed in front of the engine
Mostly because of this intersection of breather lines, fuel lines, and throttle linkage
Heres everything routing in the back. Brackets will mount the lines to the shroud, just waiting on some grommets I ordered before covid (who knows when they'll get here). Also you can see the breather lines from the valve covers, these will help oil drain through the push-rod tubes by alleviating back pressure in them. I bought these covers specifically to do this, but never hooked them up.
Shot of the LS2 coils, pressure regulator and return line
More to come |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|