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911 jared Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2018 Posts: 4 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Hello all!
I know this topic may be beaten to death. And please forgive me. I did a search i found some helpful and some just old info. So i thought id ask again.
I have a 1990 Vanagon Westfalia (automatic) i simply need more power and want to stay smog compliant in California.
I only know of two places that do the subaru legacy motor swap in the Vanagaon that will cost $15-18k. I was referred to these two places.
-EuroPro in Costa Mesa CA
-California Westy in San Diego CA
Can anyone give any input on these shops? Pros and Cons. Or even recommend me a better shop? Thank you in advance. |
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0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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911 jared wrote: |
Hello all!
I know this topic may be beaten to death. And please forgive me. I did a search i found some helpful and some just old info. So i thought id ask again.
I have a 1990 Vanagon Westfalia (automatic) i simply need more power and want to stay smog compliant in California.
I only know of two places that do the subaru legacy motor swap in the Vanagaon that will cost $15-18k. I was referred to these two places.
-EuroPro in Costa Mesa CA
-California Westy in San Diego CA
Can anyone give any input on these shops? Pros and Cons. Or even recommend me a better shop? Thank you in advance. |
If you can install a crate engine yourself, go with boxeer.com for that price. It’s a turn key diesel setup. Mount and connect some wires and hoses and go. _________________ I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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0cean wrote: |
911 jared wrote: |
Hello all!
I know this topic may be beaten to death. And please forgive me. I did a search i found some helpful and some just old info. So i thought id ask again.
I have a 1990 Vanagon Westfalia (automatic) i simply need more power and want to stay smog compliant in California.
I only know of two places that do the subaru legacy motor swap in the Vanagaon that will cost $15-18k. I was referred to these two places.
-EuroPro in Costa Mesa CA
-California Westy in San Diego CA
Can anyone give any input on these shops? Pros and Cons. Or even recommend me a better shop? Thank you in advance. |
If you can install a crate engine yourself, go with boxeer.com for that price. It’s a turn key diesel setup. Mount and connect some wires and hoses and go. |
Agreed if you gonna spend that kind of coin, go diesel. Once diesel no worries with smog etcetera. Call Greg he'll walk you through it.
https://www.boxeer.com/collections/all/products/vanagon-engine-kit-vw-2-0-tdi-cr-cjaa |
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911 jared Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2018 Posts: 4 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Thank you for the feed back. I’ll keep my options open for the diesel motor. Thanks!! |
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baltik Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2015 Posts: 440
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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I would give these guys a call, http://subaruperformanceengines.com/ they build the engines for a lot of the aforementioned installers. I just completed one of their frankenmotor installs (most hp & torque you can get in a california SMOG compliant Subaru engine)
They probably won't do quite as nice of an install job as the other builders but should be significantly less expensive |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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The only CA smog legal Subie conversion is the 2.2L with about 130HP (not the 2.5L with 165HP). Plus, many of those Subie 2.2L engines are getting older and harder to find with low mileage. They are still a fine choice if you want modest gains and good reliability.
For similar money, you could also consider the CA smog legal VW 1.8T engine (Passat, Jetta, Golf, TT Roadster, etc) with 180-220 HP. Not too much power, but this engine makes a Westy drive like a modern vehicle. And, yes, it is compatible with an auto trans in good condition (see my signature below ).
http://h2ovanagon.com/H2OVanagonConversions/OurEngineConversion.aspx
Stephan's Auto Haus in Sacramento pioneered the 1.8T conversion, got a Senate Bill to make it CA legal, and has an excellent overall reputation for their work and integrity.
Diesel is certainly a viable consideration too. Check out FAS conversions. They are on the East Coast but seem to pretty much set the gold standard when it comes to putting diesel engines into Vanagons/Westys. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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911 jared Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2018 Posts: 4 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Thank you Jerry for the reply... and everyone above.
If anyone else has any input feel free to chime in. |
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11BC2 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017 Posts: 494 Location: Cool, California
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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911 jared wrote: |
Thank you for the feed back. I’ll keep my options open for the diesel motor. Thanks!! |
The Subaru diesel can not be made smog legsl, as it was never offered in any California approved vehicle.
Any motor that was originally offered in a California approved vehicle can be used in your van.
Any ej series motor can be made California legal in your van; I'm doing an ej257 in mine. |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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11BC2 wrote: |
Any motor that was originally offered in a California approved vehicle can be used in your van.
Any ej series motor can be made California legal in your van; I'm doing an ej257 in mine. |
Details please! _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9895 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:22 am Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Yes, it will be great to see a closeup photo of the applied BAR sticker if and when it gets one.
Many people have tried and failed to get past that last important hurdle with later Subaru and other engines in their T3 vehicles.
While the guidelines give the impression that you can do it there is some difficult to see fine print that the referees usually pull out into the light when you come to them.
Mark
ThankYouJerry wrote: |
11BC2 wrote: |
Any motor that was originally offered in a California approved vehicle can be used in your van.
Any ej series motor can be made California legal in your van; I'm doing an ej257 in mine. |
Details please! |
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0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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11BC2 wrote: |
911 jared wrote: |
Thank you for the feed back. I’ll keep my options open for the diesel motor. Thanks!! |
The Subaru diesel can not be made smog legsl, as it was never offered in any California approved vehicle.
Any motor that was originally offered in a California approved vehicle can be used in your van.
Any ej series motor can be made California legal in your van; I'm doing an ej257 in mine. |
I respectfully disagree with this. All you need to do is run the diesel through DMV registrations. There is nothing stating the engine has to be sold in the state. The age of the van is the determining factor of getting a diesel through dmv, not the engine. They just want to know if it’s a diesel or not for title purposes. After that, there is no smog for the van. _________________ I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3)
Last edited by 0cean on Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Stick with a WBX, for that kind of money you can have a proper 2.2 built. While you’re at it put a new Harness in it and have the other bits rebuilt such as the throttle body and Distributor.
I own both. If you’re nearby are welcome to drive both. I like my Subaru but feel the WBX is just what belongs there and is a little more refined.
There are guys around that know how to properly build an engine, not just a mechanic that can assemble parts but properly check and double check during the process.
A friend of mine that has done probably 100s of Subaru conversions is now changing to 1.8T conversions as he feels they have fewer to no glitches once installed and running and you can still buy a brand new 1.8t.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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I am local to europro and Joe does great work.
My dad got some work done at SD westy and they were great to deal with as well.
Since you have a 90' I would almost consider keeping the wbx since there's still a lot of support for the 2.1
If I had that kind of budget I would go with the 1.8t through stephen's auto haus or gmwerks. |
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11BC2 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017 Posts: 494 Location: Cool, California
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Quote: |
I respectfully disagree with this. All you need to do is run the diesel through DMV registrations. There is nothing stating the engine has to be sold in the state. The age of the van is the determining factor of getting a diesel through dmv, not the engine. They just want to know if it’s a diesel or not for title purposes. After that, there is no smog for the van. |
You just might be correct. |
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0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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11BC2 wrote: |
Quote: |
I respectfully disagree with this. All you need to do is run the diesel through DMV registrations. There is nothing stating the engine has to be sold in the state. The age of the van is the determining factor of getting a diesel through dmv, not the engine. They just want to know if it’s a diesel or not for title purposes. After that, there is no smog for the van. |
You just might be correct. |
I sure hope so. My whole build van is based on a californa registered diesel. Even though A good amount of research was done, I will be sweating bullets at the DMV soon. _________________ I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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0cean wrote: |
11BC2 wrote: |
Quote: |
I respectfully disagree with this. All you need to do is run the diesel through DMV registrations. There is nothing stating the engine has to be sold in the state. The age of the van is the determining factor of getting a diesel through dmv, not the engine. They just want to know if it’s a diesel or not for title purposes. After that, there is no smog for the van. |
You just might be correct. |
I sure hope so. My whole build van is based on a californa registered diesel. Even though A good amount of research was done, I will be sweating bullets at the DMV soon. |
Your assumptions are correct. I converted the title on my dads van to diesel a few years ago at the dmv. It was a cake walk and I was in and out within 30 min. |
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WLD*WSTY Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2009 Posts: 438 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Quote: |
For similar money, you could also consider the CA smog legal VW 1.8T engine (Passat, Jetta, Golf, TT Roadster, etc) with 180-220 HP. Not too much power, but this engine makes a Westy drive like a modern vehicle. And, yes, it is compatible with an auto trans in good condition |
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ _________________ '82 SyncroWesty, the first ever conversion.'06 Subaru 2.5L |
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Cdub! Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2017 Posts: 67 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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You also have subiswaps in San Diego as an option |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Whats the 18k break down for a SUbie look like?
Engine cost ????
Rework Engine ????
Fab mount ????
Total Labor ?????
Shop supplies 79.99
Grand Total 18,000
Im having trouble seeing that. _________________ .ssS! |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru swap advice. (Southern CA) |
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Abscate wrote: |
Whats the 18k break down for a SUbie look like?
Engine cost ????
Rework Engine ????
Fab mount ????
Total Labor ?????
Shop supplies 79.99
Grand Total 18,000
Im having trouble seeing that. |
It's about what I paid for the engine swap at BusLab (I also had a rebuilt transaxle fitted, that was extra). Looked a hell of a lot when I was first given the estimate! However, with ~6k in labour, 5k for a completely re-built engine, plus all the fab bits (KEP and the rest), harness re-work, A/C re-furb and new CVs it sounded a lot more reasonable.
Agreed that it can be done for far, far less if you DIY all the way - but I looked at this as adding at least another ten years to the van's life so cheap enough for the fun we're now having. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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