1969 Ghia - Tough Shape, Need Advice.

[KeetBus]

Hello there,

I found this Ghia nearby in pretty rough shape. Being an extremely rare item to see in my area, and being only a few hundred bucks...I bought it.

Overall it isn't in great shape, and the floors are gone-zo.

The engine does run.

I've had dreams of fixing up a old ghia, and I really would like to turn this into a usable vehicle. (I'll say usable right now, restored might be a pipe dream.)

I'm an average joe. Not incapable of learning, but I work full time, just got married, so my free time is in segments on evenings/weekdays (Like many of you I'm sure!)

I'm not poor, but I'm not rich. I can save up for tools/parts/supplies. I've read through many of the resources here, and there's so much information it is a bit overwhelming, which is why I just wanted to ask - Where the heck do I start? Just looking for thoughts/opinions and hoping to get my direction in place and get going on this thing.

[TDCTDI]

Welcome to The Samba!


It all depends on your drive, your mechanical skills, & how or what you want your car to be while or before you drive it.

This is how I tackled mine...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691306

Most others do a much nicer job of returning their cars to their former beauty, but I know the limits of my attention span by all of the previous projects that have not been completed, so I have forced myself to do SOMETHING to the car every day, no matter how insignificant or inconsequential.

You are definitely going to need floor pans & heater channels, there are signs of headlight bucket rot clawing it’s way out from under previous attempts to hide it. You will need to remove the filler to truly know what is left of the carcass. This can easily bury you in a never ending rabbit hole.

[Onceler]

A mig welder and a 4-1/2" angle grinder with cutting discs and/or sawzall, will make things easier if you want to do things yourself. Looks like you'll need a solid floor and heater channels, if u want to drive it. How u fix those 2 items depends on ur budget/skill/timeframe/ultimate goals.
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia

[KeetBus]

Thank you both for the replies! TDCTDI, that’s a great idea, trying to do SOMETHING each day whether big or small, I like that. I’ll have to check out your entire thread, I’m only about 2 pages in so far!

Onceler - I did pick up a mig welder recently, so my skills are extreme novice (so far). I’ve heard there’s a “bug me” video that covers doing the pans, I’ll check that out next! I found the guide on removing the body from the pan, but how should I set up the body once it’s off the pan? (So that I could ideally be able to strip paint and all that). Would two guys be able to lift that?

And for stripping the body back to bare metal...I’ve watched some of those “My friend Pete” videos on YouTube, and he used some kind of aircraft paint/primer liquid stripper, is that the way to go? Can you leave the glass in when stripping down to metal or should all the glass come out?

Thanks again for your time guys, I appreciate it!

[Canghia]

Someone wrote on this site a few days or weeks ago in another thread to not strip the whole thing back to bare metal. I could not agree more. Start with something you can do and work in small pieces otherwise you get a daunting task of putting the whole thing back together and you can easily run out of steam. Pick something and do it. Maybe start with the headlights and see what you have gotten yourself into. Learn to weld, etc. A whole body restoration is a lot of work and you need to get an idea of what you are doing first. If money is tight, start small and work up. Do the math and figure out what the two floor pieces and the heater channels are before you split up the body from the pan. Its a big job and parts alone will run close to 1500$. I think you also need to determine what you want it to be when you are done.

Its alot of fun working on a project like this. This is a great site with lots of great advice. Read and ask questions. Have fun.

[Braukuche]

I've built sawhorses out of 2x4s and 4x4s to support the body with the rolling pan underneath. That way when you arent working on the pan you just roll it under the body.
With the glass out, doors and lids off, two strong guys can lift it, fours better.
The car looks complete from the pix, that's huge, saves you a lot of money.
Since you have so little in the car you cant possibly get behind on value if you DIY and do a decent job. None of its rocket science, it just take patience.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now

[Onceler]

Wow, ur a lot more ambitious than I originally thought. Seems like you're prepared for the long journey. As far a lifting the body, either invest in a engine hoist or have ~4 friends to help. If you peruse the sticky build threads you can find different ideas, from full mobile with 4x4's to stationary sawhorses. You'll probably want to remove the glass for a complete paint strip. I usually use these to strip paint

Just because most of my projects have multiple paint layers and bondo
_________________
1972 Karmann Ghia

[lonotch]

I usually go all in on my projects but that one has some big rust issues up front to me but it looks fun just to get it running and have some fun, take it to a few places and you will run into people that have the parts you need.

Clean and polish it up, who needs heater channels? It’s not like they gave off a lot of heat anyways 😁 I just use mine for defrosting, and that car looks very complete.

You don’t see those rubber bumper guards to often either.
_________________
It's not about the window, it's about the people.

German Folks

[ELFRIED]

indeed after some burgers two people can lift the body off.
I seperated front and rear axle and flexed them aswell as the wishbone
Then 2 times por 15 over it
gives a good feeling afterwards
changing all the seals ,bushings ....can be done now.

[sputnick60]

I did it on my own. With a block and tackle above the car and slings over the wheel arches I lifted the rear and set it down on some saw horses. Then I dealt with the front in the same way. Before setting it down I rolled the chassis out using the floor jack and a couple of dollies under the rear wheels.

This is a straightforward task but you have to plan it out.

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[KGCoupe]

I don't know if the whole "Rat Rod" or "Patina Look" is still a thing that people do, ... but considering that you picked up a pretty complete Karmann Ghia with a running engine for a few hundred dollars, you may want to seriously consider just cleaning everything up, perform only those repairs necessary to make it safe to drive, and roll it as is for a while.

It shouldn't be too hard to get a few hundred dollars worth of fun out of it, that's for sure.

This would also give you a chance to really evaluate everything that's wrong with the car, and ample time to decide if that Ghia is realisticly a good candidate for a more thorough restoration.

Worst case, I'm sure you could probably sell off some of those parts (such as that sweet optional accessory VW Sport steering wheel) to recoup your original investment.

Good Luck with your new find whatever you decide to do.

[slalombuggy]

IF this were my car, I could get it running and enjoy it and start doing a rolling restoration as time and money allowed. Do the brakes and service the drive train first off. Make sure it's safe to drive.

I see WAY, WAY, WAY too many project cars of all types, stripped to a shell, parts in boxes sold for next to nothing because the person who started the project didn't fully comprehend the thousands of hours of hard work and thousands of dollars, it is to restore a car, let alone these rust buckets that we love so much. In short, it's a fuckin monumental task and to do it correctly you will be looking at north of $10,000 to restore it.

2 years ago I bought such a car, from a guy who spent a month in Nevada, Texas and California looking for a super clean car, then had it shipped home to Canada, stripped the car, bought a welder, built a rotisserie and bought several thousand dollars worth of parts, got married, started a family, started a business and looked at it every day in his shop for 10 years before he sold it for next to nothing.

Enjoy the car for what it is and start picking away at it. You can do full floors with the body on the pan, or lift it off intact and do them, then drop the body back on and drive it.

brad

[Evil_Fiz]

Here is some feedback for you based on personal experience. (in no particular order)

-Rule #1: DON'T THROW ANYTHING AWAY until three years after you think the project is done.

- Get the Bentley manual for your car
- Decide what kind of build you want (daily driver, weekender, show car)
- Decide on custom or original (original will retain more value and custom will be a statement about YOU)
- Ask yourself how soon you want to start enjoying the car
- Base you strategy on the above statement
- Identify what level of perfection you expect from the finished project (are you willing to sacrifice perfection for the satisfaction of doing things yourself?)
- Everyone here wants to see you succeed at bringing you Ghia back to its original glory
- Even the harshest sounding comments are delivered with good intentions
- Build threads are a great source of knowledge, advise, and inspiration. Read through as many as you can
- Thoroughly inspect every inch of the car,=and take notes on what is broken, damaged, and missing
- Create a high level plan then create specific plans based on individual subsystems (Metal work, Paint, drive train, electrical, braking, front suspension and steering, rear suspension, fuel, interior, and glass)
- Ask for sanity checks from the group when you have doubts about you plans
- Don't rush anything. Take the time to learn what you need to get each task completed
- If you choose to do a full tear-down, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
- Label and bag or containerize every part, nut, bolt, washer, and screw
- Take too many pictures (it will never be enough)
- Leave bolts, screws, washers, and nuts together with corresponding parts when possible
- Keep wheel bearing assemblies arranged in assembly order and bundled with string to help you remember how they go together (this applies to all assemblies)
- Identify the tools you will need based on you plan and buy them as you go along
- Don't fall prey to tool snobbery. if you don't plan to rely on a tool for a living, a less expensive alternative will usually suffice (think harbor Freight or Northern Tool Company)
- Keep you work space organized and develop a work system that suits you
- Get a couple of tilting wal-mart box fans to get you through the hot days
- Every problem has a solution. Ask for help when you get stuck
- Rebuild old parts whenever possible because they are almost always better quality then reproductions
- Have someone who can "talk you down out of the tree" when you get frustrated (I thank my wife for her service in this respect)
- Set a budget and expect to go way past it
- Keep track of you time and expenses (this will work in your favor when you need to insure it as a classic)
- A stripped body shell is fairly light. I can lift the front or rear by myself with it resting on the dolly. (I have a body built for IT)
- As a reference: I have had my car just over three years and have logged about 680 Hrs. About 1/3 of that time is a result of inexperience. (...and it's still early)
- I chose to strip the entire car down to bare metal. The stripping disks mentioned above work very well but they make a lot of dust. I used a slower acting but safer paint stripper (CitriStrip), a putty knife, razor blades, scouring pads, and wire bushed of varying sizes to get it done
- A torch and a putty knife or wide chisel will make short work of removing Bondo, seam sealer, and the tar board stuck to the tunnel and floors
- An average Joe can restore a Ghia

Take a look at my gallery for measured drawings of a dolly and hoist system you can build at home (page six about half way down)

Take a look at the the stickies and the following thread in particular:
Ghia Restoration Topics – For Instruction and Inspiration.

These threads stand out to me:
Saving Emiko: 68 RHD Restoration in New Zealand
The push against entropy
*NEW* Project '63 SR Ghia Roadster
Mellow Yellow’s 1962 Aussie RHD Resto

This is all I can think of for now,
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[c21darrel]

Congrats, that looks a lot like the Ghia I bought...
same steering wheel too, lol. At least yours runs, mine didn't for 6 years. The rear bumper is from a 70-71. Drive it, enjoy it.

_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Ian Godfrey]

Another suggestion for someone who has done a few cars....
As the car is not drivable, the temptation is to take the car completely apart to start on the body which makes an incredible mess so

TAKE OFF ONE THING AT A TIME AND RESTORE IT (say the headlights or the fuel tank) doesn't much matter where you start. Restore it, bag it with its globes/fasteners/whatever for reassembly. Do a little bit each day and eventually you have a shelf of lovely resorted parts ready for reassembly, and you have learnt how it all works. Your car stays rolling for a long time and you have lovely CLEAN parts to hold, admire and show friends. Eventually you are ready to tackle the body.
Obviously reassemble is a joy.

Good luck with whatever approach you take.

[dolson1970]

Hey Samba Members,

Thanks for the encouraging post. This is a really fun project so far but I do have a couple of questions:

1. What do you recommend for a wheel conversion kit from a 4 lug (stock) system to a 5 lug pattern (custom)? Can disk brakes be added to the rear at the same time (currently drums)?

2. What is the best sound proof material out there? Seems to be a lot of choices and prices but what works best and is easiest to install for a Karmann Ghia?

3. Do you recommend a particular electrical system that will easily replace the stock existing wires, fuse box, fuses, etc...


4. Any tips or advice on fuel tank restoration? I have a German steel tank that is pretty rusty but salvageable...


5. Anyone know where I may find parts for a retractable lobster claw seat belt?

Thanks in advance for any tips, advice, or information.


Dustin

[TDCTDI]

Dude, slow up! You're going to have more than enough of a chance to blow your wad. Get the pans patched/repaired & whatever metal is necessary to attach them to the body before you start dumping cash into crap like brake conversions, wheels, & tires, that shit tends to go bad before lots of these projects can get close to completion.

Leave the harness alone unless it's hacked & keeping you from driving the car.

You're going to have to do lots of metal work before you have to worry about sound proofing.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[slalombuggy]

[fes]

So much sound advice here,lots of patient and understanding people..
Agree,don't put the cart before the horse..If you do decide to tackle the pans and channels properly,then go about it with a pragmatic attitude, I'm in construction,so I like to look at the car in a way of tackling the foundation first and working up to the roof..However,there's always just renovations to prolong the overall investment..Ghia's are cool,save it..but drive it first to see if you even like the "house" you'll be living in for a while
Nice score
_________________
'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[KGCoupe]