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Anyone ever build a mid-engine?
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Letterman7 wrote:
See that hose going to the plenum in the photo above? Oil feed for an oil gallery under the plenum. Doesn't help much on startup, but works well once the engine is warmed.

Yes I see it now! Thanks.
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winddude
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

After looking at the deserter GS sounds like the only major component from the bug in the deserter GS with the transmission. Anyone know why they didn't use the 4speed corvair trans? Looks more compact, but maybe not possible or as easy to reverse the drive.
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didget69
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

winddude wrote:
After looking at the deserter GS sounds like the only major component from the bug in the deserter GS with the transmission. Anyone know why they didn't use the 4speed corvair trans? Looks more compact, but maybe not possible or as easy to reverse the drive.


Corvair trans wouldn't work flipped to midship position. Mid engine Crown Corvair buggy used VW transmission.

bryan
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Pretty sure the Corvair trans uses a cast iron case, making it anchor heavy - especially compared to the SA trans. Plus, like didget69 commented, not easy to set up for mid-engine. It was much easier back in the day to use a SA set up for mid engine with "flipped" R&P and Crown engine adapter. Deserter's basically used a Formula V rear end set-up with extremely light chassis. Mine was only about 80lbs IIRC, for the bare chassis. Lightness and big Corvair power was what the GS was all about. Cool
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BIGMIKEY
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

winddude wrote:

With the deserter GS, what trans is mounted behind the corvair engine? Any pic from the rear? Curious to see how they look with the trans sticking out the back, because the manx style and clones where definitely designed for the engine out the back


Here are some pictures of the rear of Deserter Series 1 in GS configuration. As you can see the trans doesn't stick out the back even as much as the VW engine does.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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bim55
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

I always like to see pics of one of my builds and I have many pics of the yellow GS on line at www.bimelliott.shutterfly.com. (I still don’t like posting pics on this site.)

But to answer some questions.

Yes It used an early short throw crank (145ci) with 140heads. Ran very nice and was a suggestion of Steve at Rear Engine Specialist in CO.
Yes you need to heat the intake and sitting on top of the fan didn’t help with that but the package fit under the hood, so a good choice.
Yes VW tranny with crown adaptor. With jamar linkage. And a 928 starter!
And I used a 911 can muffler that worked great also.

And here is one photo of the rear end.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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bim55
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Sweet ride! These days a 924/944/928 transaxle would simplify things. Yes?

Or would the gearing be to high?
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

A lot of Mid Engine rails were made for sand and drags back in the 80's. Buy one and hang a FG body on it. They pop up now and again on this site.

Here is mine. Weighed 804 pounds without driver. If using a VW engine, just flip the ring gear and and ready to go. I still have one fully prepped spare swing axle with flipped r/p for the rail. Ran 6.80's in 1/8 mile with a 1915 cc engine. The handling started getting a little sketchy around 120 mph.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The ACME mid engine buggy came to the Manx At The Glen Manx Club event this past July. They drove it on all the runs with us, no cooling problems. Electric fan did throttle on/off as the engine needed. Super fast even with the Auto trans. They said it handled very well on the Watkins Glen Track when we ran the laps there.
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didget69
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Sweet ride! These days a 924/944/928 transaxle would simplify things. Yes?

Or would the gearing be to high?


No - an adapter would be required to mount any engine to the 'Porsche/Audi' trans used in 92X/944. Shift mechanism would also be an issue to solve.

bryan
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damarble
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

I'm in the planning stages of what could be considered a middy. 3.0L Duratec and MTX-75 (FWD setup) mounted in the rear. The weight isn't quite in the middle but it's in front of the axle centerline, the weight distribution should be decent.
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winddude
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
A lot of Mid Engine rails were made for sand and drags back in the 80's. Buy one and hang a FG body on it. They pop up now and again on this site.


Only problem is the dimensions wouldn't fit the body. Probably better to bend one up myself.
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winddude
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

I really like the look of the Deserter GS. But lately I'm leaning a little more towards a bit more of a race car style body.

Something like the Copper Monaco King Cobra.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Who knows when I'll get there, need to finish my current mini buggy build first. And who knows how much will be VW, but I do love the simplicity of working on the VW drivetrain, and the boxer configuration. It's designed for a american V8 but it's small enough for smaller engines.

I wonder if there was a body kit made similar to the king cobra for a vw platform?
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Letterman7
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Go Subaru power with a Subaru transaxle in the normal configuration, take off and lock the rear output with a kit from Subieswaps. Use the front axle drives as your rear drives. Thought about doing this with a Sterling many times, but time and money... and you need to heavily modify a VW chassis unless you go with a tube frame.
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sector
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Factory Five Racing (FFR) 818 cars use that mid engine Subaru setup. You can actually start with their chassis and adapt to it any fiberglass body of your choice. They perform very well on the track or street. Also tons of support from their site.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/forumdisplay.php?28-The-New-Factory-Five-818

That is where I gathered most of the info for my Subaru based build. Subaru power plants have more choices and interchangeably than any other. Power ratings are anywhere from 160hp to 500hp and a choice of manual or auto trans. Also being all aluminum boxer engine, they are lightweight with low center of gravity. In my opinion ideal for such application.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

The P Spyder gets to into mid-engine territory and keeps a lot of VW (based) parts and that 60's vibe. Tends to be a little pricey though. Anything V8 based - plan on bringing the BIG $$$!

I really like the looks of the Attack, using bulletproof Honda V6 power. Too bad it was never really a viable "kit" offering in the US. I've read it wasn't very builder friendly.

FF 818 - super excited about the concept, too bad they won't sell just the chassis separately for anyone wanting to fit their own bodywork. Still be a ton of work - it's a ton just to assemble the kit as delivered, according to the many threads I've read. Now that said, someone alluded to some kind of Lancia Stratos style bodywork (in the works? bad rumor? Popcorn ).

Seeing how much work was involved in building a mid-engine buggy (yes - my GS is still in the works, unfortunately relegated to back-burner for last year and a half.... Sad ), doing any kind of build from scratch takes lots of talent, time - and knowledge!
Jeff
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winddude
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

GS guy wrote:
The P Spyder gets to into mid-engine territory and keeps a lot of VW (based) parts and that 60's vibe. Tends to be a little pricey though. Anything V8 based - plan on bringing the BIG $$$!

...

someone alluded to some kind of Lancia Stratos style bodywork (in the works? bad rumor? Popcorn ).



Any pics or links to info on the P Spyder?

Yes someone, a lancia rebuilder, in new zealand, has made molds and produced a replica or two of the Lancia Stratos. It was in a youtube series from Drive on rally racing. Here's the link https://youtu.be/u-Ja8DTstTM?t=330, or below starting at the 5min 30 sec mark.


Link
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

Great video! The Lancia 037 is one car I could definitely see building if anyone ever offered a kit DIY version! Total Bad A$$! Love the lines - hotter than a Ferrari IMO. Not as futuristic as the Stratos, but maybe a bit more practical as a fun road car? Gruppe B tarmac that is! Very Happy

Here's a starter link on the 550 - Google is your friend!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_550

Jeff
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

P Spyder = Porsche Spyder Idea Embarassed
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didget69
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? Reply with quote

The Porsche 550 Spyder has a dead simple chassis, but it won't work well with a transverse powertrain application.

bryan
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