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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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Letterman7 wrote: |
See that hose going to the plenum in the photo above? Oil feed for an oil gallery under the plenum. Doesn't help much on startup, but works well once the engine is warmed. |
Yes I see it now! Thanks. |
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winddude Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2013 Posts: 160 Location: South Vancouver Island
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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After looking at the deserter GS sounds like the only major component from the bug in the deserter GS with the transmission. Anyone know why they didn't use the 4speed corvair trans? Looks more compact, but maybe not possible or as easy to reverse the drive. |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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winddude wrote: |
After looking at the deserter GS sounds like the only major component from the bug in the deserter GS with the transmission. Anyone know why they didn't use the 4speed corvair trans? Looks more compact, but maybe not possible or as easy to reverse the drive. |
Corvair trans wouldn't work flipped to midship position. Mid engine Crown Corvair buggy used VW transmission.
bryan _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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GS guy Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007 Posts: 967 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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Pretty sure the Corvair trans uses a cast iron case, making it anchor heavy - especially compared to the SA trans. Plus, like didget69 commented, not easy to set up for mid-engine. It was much easier back in the day to use a SA set up for mid engine with "flipped" R&P and Crown engine adapter. Deserter's basically used a Formula V rear end set-up with extremely light chassis. Mine was only about 80lbs IIRC, for the bare chassis. Lightness and big Corvair power was what the GS was all about.
Jeff. _________________ 70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1102 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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winddude wrote: |
With the deserter GS, what trans is mounted behind the corvair engine? Any pic from the rear? Curious to see how they look with the trans sticking out the back, because the manx style and clones where definitely designed for the engine out the back |
Here are some pictures of the rear of Deserter Series 1 in GS configuration. As you can see the trans doesn't stick out the back even as much as the VW engine does.
Mike T _________________ BIGMIKEY
Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue. |
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bim55 Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 438 Location: Dennis Port, MA
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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I always like to see pics of one of my builds and I have many pics of the yellow GS on line at www.bimelliott.shutterfly.com. (I still don’t like posting pics on this site.)
But to answer some questions.
Yes It used an early short throw crank (145ci) with 140heads. Ran very nice and was a suggestion of Steve at Rear Engine Specialist in CO.
Yes you need to heat the intake and sitting on top of the fan didn’t help with that but the package fit under the hood, so a good choice.
Yes VW tranny with crown adaptor. With jamar linkage. And a 928 starter!
And I used a 911 can muffler that worked great also.
And here is one photo of the rear end.
_________________ Boston Bob E.
www.bimelliott.com www.deserterownersgroup.org |
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bim55 Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 438 Location: Dennis Port, MA
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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Sweet ride! These days a 924/944/928 transaxle would simplify things. Yes?
Or would the gearing be to high? |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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A lot of Mid Engine rails were made for sand and drags back in the 80's. Buy one and hang a FG body on it. They pop up now and again on this site.
Here is mine. Weighed 804 pounds without driver. If using a VW engine, just flip the ring gear and and ready to go. I still have one fully prepped spare swing axle with flipped r/p for the rail. Ran 6.80's in 1/8 mile with a 1915 cc engine. The handling started getting a little sketchy around 120 mph.
The ACME mid engine buggy came to the Manx At The Glen Manx Club event this past July. They drove it on all the runs with us, no cooling problems. Electric fan did throttle on/off as the engine needed. Super fast even with the Auto trans. They said it handled very well on the Watkins Glen Track when we ran the laps there. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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oprn wrote: |
Sweet ride! These days a 924/944/928 transaxle would simplify things. Yes?
Or would the gearing be to high? |
No - an adapter would be required to mount any engine to the 'Porsche/Audi' trans used in 92X/944. Shift mechanism would also be an issue to solve.
bryan _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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damarble Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2018 Posts: 12 Location: Spokane
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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I'm in the planning stages of what could be considered a middy. 3.0L Duratec and MTX-75 (FWD setup) mounted in the rear. The weight isn't quite in the middle but it's in front of the axle centerline, the weight distribution should be decent. |
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winddude Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2013 Posts: 160 Location: South Vancouver Island
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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joescoolcustoms wrote: |
A lot of Mid Engine rails were made for sand and drags back in the 80's. Buy one and hang a FG body on it. They pop up now and again on this site.
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Only problem is the dimensions wouldn't fit the body. Probably better to bend one up myself. |
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winddude Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2013 Posts: 160 Location: South Vancouver Island
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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I really like the look of the Deserter GS. But lately I'm leaning a little more towards a bit more of a race car style body.
Something like the Copper Monaco King Cobra.
Who knows when I'll get there, need to finish my current mini buggy build first. And who knows how much will be VW, but I do love the simplicity of working on the VW drivetrain, and the boxer configuration. It's designed for a american V8 but it's small enough for smaller engines.
I wonder if there was a body kit made similar to the king cobra for a vw platform? |
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Letterman7 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 3198 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:26 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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Go Subaru power with a Subaru transaxle in the normal configuration, take off and lock the rear output with a kit from Subieswaps. Use the front axle drives as your rear drives. Thought about doing this with a Sterling many times, but time and money... and you need to heavily modify a VW chassis unless you go with a tube frame. |
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sector Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2015 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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Factory Five Racing (FFR) 818 cars use that mid engine Subaru setup. You can actually start with their chassis and adapt to it any fiberglass body of your choice. They perform very well on the track or street. Also tons of support from their site.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/forumdisplay.php?28-The-New-Factory-Five-818
That is where I gathered most of the info for my Subaru based build. Subaru power plants have more choices and interchangeably than any other. Power ratings are anywhere from 160hp to 500hp and a choice of manual or auto trans. Also being all aluminum boxer engine, they are lightweight with low center of gravity. In my opinion ideal for such application. |
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GS guy Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007 Posts: 967 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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The P Spyder gets to into mid-engine territory and keeps a lot of VW (based) parts and that 60's vibe. Tends to be a little pricey though. Anything V8 based - plan on bringing the BIG $$$!
I really like the looks of the Attack, using bulletproof Honda V6 power. Too bad it was never really a viable "kit" offering in the US. I've read it wasn't very builder friendly.
FF 818 - super excited about the concept, too bad they won't sell just the chassis separately for anyone wanting to fit their own bodywork. Still be a ton of work - it's a ton just to assemble the kit as delivered, according to the many threads I've read. Now that said, someone alluded to some kind of Lancia Stratos style bodywork (in the works? bad rumor? ).
Seeing how much work was involved in building a mid-engine buggy (yes - my GS is still in the works, unfortunately relegated to back-burner for last year and a half.... ), doing any kind of build from scratch takes lots of talent, time - and knowledge!
Jeff _________________ 70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
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winddude Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2013 Posts: 160 Location: South Vancouver Island
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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GS guy wrote: |
The P Spyder gets to into mid-engine territory and keeps a lot of VW (based) parts and that 60's vibe. Tends to be a little pricey though. Anything V8 based - plan on bringing the BIG $$$!
...
someone alluded to some kind of Lancia Stratos style bodywork (in the works? bad rumor? ).
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Any pics or links to info on the P Spyder?
Yes someone, a lancia rebuilder, in new zealand, has made molds and produced a replica or two of the Lancia Stratos. It was in a youtube series from Drive on rally racing. Here's the link https://youtu.be/u-Ja8DTstTM?t=330, or below starting at the 5min 30 sec mark.
Link
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GS guy Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007 Posts: 967 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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Great video! The Lancia 037 is one car I could definitely see building if anyone ever offered a kit DIY version! Total Bad A$$! Love the lines - hotter than a Ferrari IMO. Not as futuristic as the Stratos, but maybe a bit more practical as a fun road car? Gruppe B tarmac that is!
Here's a starter link on the 550 - Google is your friend!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_550
Jeff _________________ 70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
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winddude Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2013 Posts: 160 Location: South Vancouver Island
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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P Spyder = Porsche Spyder |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4925 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone ever build a mid-engine? |
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The Porsche 550 Spyder has a dead simple chassis, but it won't work well with a transverse powertrain application.
bryan _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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