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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: Flaps |
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| How can I tell if my flaps are actually opening and closing. Are there any tell-tales looking at the outside of the cooling tin? The reason I ask is I don't seem to get anything out of the heater/demister vents. Looking at the thermostat it is changing state when hold cold and is connected to the link rod. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13280
Location: Tejas!
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13280
Location: Tejas!
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| I know that the heater controls open and close the heat exchangers but don't the flaps affect the amount of air directed to the heater i.e.if they are fully open air is directed to the engine for cooling rather than the heater. |
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Erik G wrote: |
27/29 are your heat controls (I'm assuming your T-34)
13/14 are fresh air |
That's interesting. My controls are the other way round. 27 is rear foot well and 29 is heater on/off. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13280
Location: Tejas!
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Sounds like I need to look elsewhere. Perhaps I need to open the windows a bit to let some cold air out so the hot air can get in. |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Marvel wrote: |
| I know that the heater controls open and close the heat exchangers but don't the flaps affect the amount of air directed to the heater i.e.if they are fully open air is directed to the engine for cooling rather than the heater. |
Nope.
The heat system always gets full blast from the fan. The flaps connected to the thermostat have nothing at all to do with that, all they do is regulate the amount of cooling air that's allowed to pass over the heads/cylinders/oil cooler.
The heat system gets full flow all the time. All that the heater controls in the car do is determine where that hot air gets blasted out: either under the car (heat off) or inside the car (heat on).
You will get more air flow if you crack a vent window but you should have noticeable flow even with the windows shut, especially above idle.
Spend some time following the path of air from fan housing to interior vents, if you're not getting any flow I would guess you either have a hose (or hoses) off/missing, or the cable that actuates the heat valves is broken, or you've got blockages somewhere (or completely rusted out heater channels).
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Reference my original question. Is it possible to tell whether the flaps are opening and closing? I can see the cross shaft which operates the shaft and can put a mark on it to see if it turns but can't see what the flaps are doing. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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You can file a slot parallel to the flaps, and thereafter have an external indication.
But with it all buttoned up, there is little ability to tell if the flap(s) came loose. There is knurling on the shaft to help keep it tight, but stuff happens. Maybe a cheap borescope might get in through a spark plug tin opening for a look? Better yet, maybe stick it in through the fat hose connection (elbow) on either side? If you are a contortionist, maybe a couple of mirrors could work through those openings? Otherwise a whole lot of crap has to be removed to lift off the upper tins.
For plumbing problems and finding wiring in walls, I bought a cheap fiber-optic camera that talks to my cell phone... pretty good deal for about $60. High resolution, good depth of field, good LED lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0785H3XR7/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Perhaps I'll get a cheap anemometer and see if the air flow out of the ducting changes from cold to hot. That should indicate if the flaps are opening. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| thermostat and the flaps that allow cool air to come into the engine have nothing to do with the heater vents. Completely separate system |
Phil told you to file an indicator slot to check your flaps.
I get lots of heat on the floorboards, but very little through the defroster ducts.
Crack your side window open & the wimpy defroster heat will keep it pretty clean.
Always leave 1/2 windows cracked open for moisture.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
| thermostat and the flaps that allow cool air to come into the engine have nothing to do with the heater vents. Completely separate system |
Phil told you to file an indicator slot to check your flaps.
I get lots of heat on the floorboards, but very little through the defroster ducts.
Crack your side window open & the wimpy defroster heat will keep it pretty clean.
Always leave 1/2 windows cracked open for moisture. |
Mike, have you tried adjusting your front flap cables?
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Marvel
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 143
Location: Ringwood, England
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Checked the thermostat and it's extending when hot. Put a mark on the cross shaft but it doesn't rotate from cold to hot and its definitely not seized. Either the operating rod has come unhooked or it's been put together wrong if this is possible. It doesn't overheat so I assume the flaps are fully open. Does the spring hold them open or closed if the thermostat linkage fails? Looks like the tinware has got to come off to check it. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
| thermostat and the flaps that allow cool air to come into the engine have nothing to do with the heater vents. Completely separate system |
Phil told you to file an indicator slot to check your flaps.
I get lots of heat on the floorboards, but very little through the defroster ducts.
Crack your side window open & the wimpy defroster heat will keep it pretty clean.
Always leave 1/2 windows cracked open for moisture. |
Mike, have you tried adjusting your front flap cables? |
The front fresh air flaps? Yes, but they're frozen and still leak cold air. I've been too vain to slap magnetic covers on the intake grills.
These 2 vertical slide controls on the front foot-wells direct less/more defroster heat? My driver side slides good so I'll have to try it on my next trip to town!
My rear foot-wells heat cables are sliding fine. I need to experiment with this again too.
Our weather is not that cold, so I've been living with a little unwanted cold air since I have massive heat available on the front floorboards.
I love the center heat lever, but I should get all my VW cables/levers/controls lubed up better! 
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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Yes, the foot well cables and flaps control the heat to the windshield.
Sounds like you need to pull the fresh air boxes out, and put new sealing material on them. I use cap to pick up box roll material for that. Works good.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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lovevintagemetal
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2019
Posts: 8
Location: california
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| do the flap need to be in? dont you want fan to cool all the time or do flaps redirect air somewher else |
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BSQUARE
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2004
Posts: 1876
Location: Feeling, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| lovevintagemetal wrote: |
| do the flap need to be in? dont you want fan to cool all the time or do flaps redirect air somewher else |
The flaps, when closed, help the engine get up to operating temperature quicker.
While driving - they open to maintain operating temp. they're rarely, if ever, fully open.
Taking the flaps off, or setting them fully open will lead to longer warm-up time (if it ever will warm up fully) and over-cooling the engine.
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1988 Ford Festiva L
1965 Honda 50 "Super Cub"
2016 Miami Sun Trike |
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Pre 63 cars did not have flaps or a thermostat, so it is possible to run without. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Flaps |
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| Jason37 wrote: |
| Pre 63 cars did not have flaps or a thermostat, so it is possible to run without. |
Yup. If you're not getting any heat to the inside of the car, I'd look and make sure ALL of the plumbing is in place so the heated air will travel to the inside the car. Bentley covers the plumbing bits you need for the stock system. If you're running a header with a quiet pack muffler set up instead of the stock system, then you'll need some good connecting hoses from the fan to the main (large) heat exchangers on the engine end of the heating system.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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