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need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down
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mr. lang
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

Hi folks, sorry for the delay.
but I did broke my right hands annular finger two days after my last update and I have to do all the work with one hand since then.
So this project almost came to an halt with me doing some simple jobs since then.

Nevertheless on the day before my accident, I did remove the gears:
In constant steps of 2mm, I pressed on the input and then on the output shaft moving the whole cluster out of the bearings.
During this, I did wiggle on the gears to check if they will not bind.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It did work.
shift rod for 1st and 2nd came down, but shift rod for 3rd and 4th did stick in the case because of the interlock mechanism causing the slider to slide off the gears.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not seen in the pictures, but I did also pull the remaining interlock mechanism, the reverse switch and all the oil seals.

output shaft to the left, input shaft to the right with the separated slider for 3rd and 4th
3 pieces on the top right are part of the slider mechanism
below input shaft is the reverse gear.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That was done before my accident, the following steps were done since then.

With my disabled fingers, I did decide, to keep the gears together. I cannot actuate the shop press and prevent all the little pieces from falling off the table with just one hand.

So I started to put the slider ring back on the stack.
With trial and error I came to the solution to zip tie the 3 little pieces together pressing them down with 3 nuts.
This will set them under a preload which will make the assembly much easier.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I did check needle bearing for first gear, because it was an easy access and doable with one hand.
The surface on the shaft has some kind of wear marks, but on the needles I could not see any abrasion.
For now I did put it pack together, but I will see, if I will source the needles to replace them.
084 parts are hard to find for a reasonable price.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't want to soak my bondage in gear oil, so I did drop off the gearbox at the pro engine shop, which did the hone job on the small block.
They did remember me and so I got the wash for free. I could not leave without spending a tip for the kitty.
clutch side
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Input shaft roller bearing is junk. It has wear marks and a lot of clearance.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Output shaft roller bearing is okay. Workshop manual says to press it down flush to the case, but this one does protrude almost a mm. It has wear marks from the first gear and I will replace it too.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


diff tapered roller bearing has also seen better days and will be replaced too.
It has a type 4 part number 411 501 283 E. Some information (thanks Ray) about replacements can be found in this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=669269
The green adapter for the oil seal needs to come out to replace the bearing. Per the workshop manual, this will then be destroyed, but I try to keep it in good order, since this part doesn't grow on trees and is NLA. (well I have a NOS spare, but would like to keep it)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Other (gear) side
the two bearings (to the right) will be replaced
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


tapered roller bearing too. It's the same as on the clutch side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also did measure the synchronizer rings which are all in like new condition, far away from wear limit.
wear limit: 0.5mm
#1: 1.3mm, #2: 1.35mm, #3: 1.10mm, #4: 1.50mm

Now I just need to wait for parts to arrive.
It's a good Idea to not remove (and potentially damage) any part as long as you do not have the replacement in your hand(s).
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mr. lang
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

parts did arrive
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


unspectacular picture where I did press the two ball bearings out of the gear case
No special tool necessary
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


gear side tapered roller bearing and shim S1
I did use VW 455, but a self made pressure piece with 51.8mm can also be used
should be almost exactly this size, otherwise it will not work
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


all the little pieces from the gear side.
The shim to the lower left is called S1 and does always have 1.0mm. Don't mix this up with the one on the clutch side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


green adapter removal in the clutch side of the gearbox
I used a self made pressure piece with 50.4mm, which did fit exactly in the orifice of the tapered roller bearing
should be almost exactly 50.4mm
I had to apply almost 1.5 tons before the adapter did hop out with a loud BANG.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


clutch side tapered roller bearing and shim S2
once again with VW 455 or 51.8mm pressure piece
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


input shaft cylindrical roller bearing
I did use VW 295 and VW 295A
VW 295A does have a outer diameter of 34.5mm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


all the little pieces from the clutch side of the gearbox
the shim is called S2. It does set the tapered roller bearing pretension.
The size of this shim must be re-measured when the tapered roller bearings, the differential housing, or one of the case halves will be replaced.
Since I have to do this, I will write more about this in a later post.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The plastic snap ring on the ball bearings can be removed with a drift
When the balls are then moved to one side of the bearing, the bearing can be rolled and analyzed.
This is the one from the input shaft and as you can see it does have pieces of the running surface missing.
Such a pothole does also make the surface of the balls look dull.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The balls on the output shaft bearing do look almost shiny, but the outer running surface does start to show wear.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


both bearings do sound horrible when I spin them, even after a good clean. Both needs to be replaced.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

I did disassemble the differential housing just for the fun of it and to get it clean again.

tapered roller bearing pulled from the gear side
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


pulled from the clutch side
below the bearing is the speedometer worm wheel. It's very close to the bearing and so the above gear puller did not fit.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The spider gears are held in place by a slotted pin
the molded circle at 7 o'clock indicates, that this housing does need a plastic gear carrier
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


everything being apart and cleaned
plastic gear carrier on the lower right
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

I said, that I do not disassemble the gear shafts, but with my finger getting better, I am able to disassemble them anyway and I'm glad I did.

Input shaft
after removing the big circlip, 4th gear can be pulled
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


not shown is a thin washer and another small circlip which needs to be removed to press off the clutch gear
I had to apply 2.5 tons and did fear to crunch my wood construction, but all went well
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


all the parts cleaned
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


disassemble of the output shaft is the same procedure
For the big circlip you need the correct circlip pliers.
As a replacement for VW161A, I did use one like this: http://media.tbs-aachen.de/images/267617_1.jpg
but had to guide the circlip additionally with a wrench to get it off the shaft.
the clutch gear was a loose fit and came off with a few hits with a mallet on the shaft -> not so good
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


the loose clutch gear needs to be fixed, but I do not know how. Either replace or loctite
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

The final step to have everything completely disassembles was to pull the output shaft roller bearing.
Unfortunately it's sitting into a blind hole.
The workshop manual recommends to use Kukko 21/5 and Kukko 22/2 but to me it's too expensive for just this one pull job.
China does deliver a lot of cheap pullers for this task. If you go this route, the puller must be designed for a 30mm inner diameter bearing and should be very sturdy.

I decided to build my own puller (with the help of my brother).
It's a 30.0mm diameter barrel with a lower 2.5mm high and 31.5mm diameter flange having 14 notches made for 6mm rollers.
You slide the puller down the hole, rotate the flange below the rollers and pull.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


First I tried it with the U-bracing of the type 1 oil pump puller. The bracing was too weak and did bend.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


next try was with a 20mm steel bar which did then work very well
the lower wrench is to keep the notches in position
bearing half way pulled
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Having this bearing pulled marks a huge milestone in my tear-down, because from now on, I can only put things back together instead off pulling them apart.
Makes me nervous and hopefully I did and do everything correct.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

Time to do measurements.

This 084 gearbox does have 3 parts (input shaft, output shaft, differential housing) that need attention, when modifications on the gearbox were done.
- Input shaft: must be re-shimmed, if you replace the gear side case half, the input shaft itself or the input shaft bearing
- Output shaft: must be re-shimmed, if you replace the gear side case half, the output shaft itself or the output shaft bearing
- differential: must be re-shimmed, if you replace the gear side case half, the clutch side case half, the differential housing or the tapered roller bearings

input and output shaft must also be re-shimmed, when you did not pay attention during disassemble and did mix those shims.


To re-shim the gearbox does sound worse than it is. In most cases, the old shims can be reused.

I will replace all bearings, so I have to adjust all 3 parts.




Input and output shaft big shims:
below the bearing cover are 2 big shims with a diameter of the bearing, one for the input (upper location), one for the output shaft (lower location)
These shims do protrude out of the gear case and will then be held in place and pressed against the bearings by the small side cover.
Between the cover and the gear case is the paper gasket which will then be compressed based on the size of the shims.
With the correct shim size, the compressed gasket will end between 0.30mm and 0.26mm
So the new gasket should be thicker then 0.30mm and made of a compressible material.
I have two nos gaskets, one measured ~0.4mm and the other ~0.45mm
The old used and hardened one measured exactly 0.30mm

If you replace the bearing and compare the thickness with a micrometer you get an idea, if you need to replace the shims.
My old SKF bearings measured 14.99mm
My new FAG bearings measured 14.98mm
Based on this and using the old shims, my new gasket would be compressed to 0.29mm which is well within the tolerance. So the old shims could be reused without any problem.

But I was curious and measured the bearing seat anyway

The workshop manual method would be to press the bearing into the case (during normal assembly with the shafts) and measure with a dial gauge (and tool VW 382/7) how deep the bearing does seat in the case.
Based on the measured recess, select the correct shim.
measured 0.60 ... 0.64mm, use 0.90 shim
measured 0.65 ... 0.69mm, use 0.95 shim
measured 0.70 ... 0.74mm, use 1.00 shim
measured 0.75 ... 0.79mm, use 1.05 shim
measured 0.80 ... 0.84mm, use 1.10 shim
measured 0.85 ... 0.89mm, use 1.15 shim
measured 0.90 ... 0.94mm, use 1.20 shim
measured 0.95 ... 0.99mm, use 1.25 shim
measured 1.00 ... 1.04mm, use 1.30 shim

The gasket would then be compressed down from 0.30mm to 0.26mm


I don't have tool VW382/7 (or something similar) and the bearings are not yet pressed into the case.
So I used Johansson gauge blocks.
I did mount the cover at the case and did measure from the inside of the case
I moved the blocks into the bearing seat around in circles and noted the biggest possible size to do a full turn
input shaft: 15.78mm
output shaft 15.76mm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I've also tried from the outside with a depth gauge with a similar result
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now time to do the math:
input shaft: 15.78mm (bearing seat depth) - 14.98mm (bearing) = 0.80mm (recess) = 1.10mm shim
output shaft: 15.76mm - 14.98mm = 0.78mm = 1.05mm shim

exactly the ones, I removed during disassemble. No need to order new big shims.


EDIT: I checked my notes from the disassemble and I realized, that the shims were mounted the other way around.
Either I mixed them (shame on me) or this is another evidence, that this gearbox was opened before.
1st is the not fully pressed flush down into the case output shaft roller bearing
2nd is the #1 synchronizer ring which is not like on stock gearboxes with 3 tooth missing
3rd would be that the previous builder did not pay attention to the location of those shims and mixed them up.
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Last edited by mr. lang on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

Input and output shaft small shims

The small shim does sit behind the bearing cover on the shaft and is held in place by a circlip. (sorry, no picture about it)

Per the workshop manual, the clearance between the circlip and the shim must be measured with a feeler gauge and should then be between 0.00 and max 0.05mm
Shims are available from 1.75mm up to 2.05mm

If you just replace the bearing and it measures the same thickness, then you can reuse the old shim.
My new bearings are 0.01mm smaller in size than the old ones, so I gonna use the old shims.


The output shaft is held together by a very strong circlip behind the bearing. If you replace it, make sure, that the new strong circlip does have a thickness of 1.75mm since the thickness of this circlip will influence the size of the small output shaft shim.
My new replacement circlip measured a tad thicker than 1.75 at one spot which turned out to be a burr I had to grind away.
I will address this later again.
strong circlip to the far left should have 1.75mm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

differential shims S1 and S2

the differential housing will be aligned by 2 shims called S1 and S2
S1 is located in the gear case half and does always measure 1.0mm
S2 is located in the clutch case half and will be used to set pretension for the differential tapered roller bearings.

S2 will be determined by the following procedure:

place shim S1 (1.00mm) in the gear side case half
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press in the outer ring of the tapered roller bearing in gear case
I did use VW 433, but a pressure piece with 61mm diameter would do the same job
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press the rest of the bearing onto the gear side of the differential housing
pay attention to not to damage the bearing retainer.
use a length of pipe if possible
manual says to use VW 454, but VW 433 does fit too
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press the outer ring of the other bearing into the clutch case half.
NO shim is used
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place differential into case and mount case halves together using at least 5 screws and tighten them with 25Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


then measure axial play with a dial gauge
I've tried it with a depth gauge too and got the same result.
I've measures 1.72mm of axial play
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Once again time to do the math
A constant pretension of 0.30mm must be added to the measured value. This is the size of shim S2
In my case: 1.72mm + 0.30mm = 2.02mm

shims are available from 1.40mm up to 2.40mm in steps of 0.05mm

I can use my old shim, which measured 2.05mm
Open up the case, press the outer part of the tapered roller bearing out of the clutch case half
Press the roller bearing in again with shim S2 underneath
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's it.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

I did an additional test, you probably won't see that often, but I have the tool, so I did check the friction of the tapered roller bearings

I love tools and I'm collecting all kind of tools and special tools used in the workshop manuals for my different kind of VWs.
I only buy tools I actually can use on my current cars and I don't care, if I will use that tool just once, as long as it will improve or speed up my work or is super cheap or just super cool.

One night I scored a friction gauge VLC 547-V, exactly like the one pictured in various workshop manuals.
I was the only bidder and so I got this for a very reasonable price like $18


On the very last page of the 084 workshop manual is the description on how to test the gearbox tapered roller bearing friction
They say to use the clamping tool VW 521/4 together with VW 521/7 or to use VW 249 instead of VW 521/4 and /7

I did it slightly different.
for this I did build a "T-handle" from scrap parts, I could slide into the differential housing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then I placed the differential housing into the case (S1 and S2 installed) and tightened all screws to 25Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


On the protruding nuts, I plugged the friction gauge on and started to crank
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Used bearings should have at least 30 Ncm
New bearings should be between 120 and 250 Ncm
I've measured approx 20 cmkp which is circa 200 Ncm, well within the tolerance.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With the knowledge, that I already have all the correct shims, I did place my two final orders of needed parts.
Before the packages will arrive, I gonna clean all remaining parts, but I will not bore you with details about that.
My thread is boring enough. Sackzement !
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

What a bummer!
I've ordered a few parts from a vendor who claimed to have them available. Out of the 7 parts I ordered, he was only able to deliver 2 of them which I could have also ordered elsewhere.
One of the not available parts was the needle bearing for gear #1.
The only other source I found was on ebay for a horrendous price, like 6 times I had to pay for the other 3 needle bearings.
So I ordered the individual needles from this bearing from another vendor who also claimed, that the needles are available. Wrong!
And it's not that they did hurry to share this information with me.
I did swallow the pill and did buy the ebay needle bearing, because this one was the most important one having the most wear (discolorations and conical).

In the meantime I did measure a few things like needle bearings needle diameter, needle bearing inner and outer race diameter on the shafts and gears.
bearing clearance will change from
#1 (missing. because new bearing not jet here
#2 from 0.035mm to 0.032mm
#3 from 0.030mm to 0.024mm
#4 from 0.040mm to 0.032mm
Not much of a difference, but all old needles in the needle bearings turned conical in shape, reason enough to replace them.

I swapped synchro ring from #1 to #3 and used a good used one for #1. Synchro clearance has changed from:
#1 from 1.40mm to 1.40mm, but now it's the original style syncro ring with 3 teeth missing
#2 has 1.30mm
#3 from 1.05mm to 1.25mm
#4 has 1.45mm
All of them are now well within the like new tolerance.


While I'm still waiting for this final bearing, I started to assemble the differential housing.

Any moving part should be oiled during assembly, so I do not point this every time out. A few parts which should not be oiled will be mentioned later.

Place the oiled plastic gear carrier into the housing
Then place the bigger gears into the housing and keep them in place using the flanges.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place one of the smaller gears into the housing
rotate that gear 180° to the back of the housing and add the second gear
rotate both gears 90° further and insert oiled stud
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press in the 2 securing pins with the open end pointing outwards
The replacement pins (per the parts catalogue) are shorter, so pay attention to not press them in too far.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


all the new parts (on top) for the input shaft
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


the clutch gear for gear #3 and #4 to the right must be pressed on the shaft in a given direction.
The lateral groove must point to gear #3
Then there is another groove along the top of the outer edge, which must point to #4
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I've measured the slider and it seems to be symmetrical. I have an older workshop manual, where the slider has a notch which indicates the direction, but this one does not have this notch. In the manual for this gear box "age group" there is also no notch and direction mentioned.

So I decided to install it based on wear.
You could clearly see a wear difference between the sides and since #3 will wear faster than #4, I placed the side with less wear away from #3, pointing to #4
Remember, that the slider and not the clutch gear does move.
Less wear on the back does point to gear #4, more wear in the front to gear #3
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place the slider on the clutch gear
here you can see the groove along the top of the clutch gear again (does point to #4)
slide in the 3 little pieces and place snap ring like pictured with a 120° offset
The bend end must sit into the little piece
The left snap ring is pictured like it should be mounted from the bottom and like you would see it through the gear with a X-Ray vision. If you flip gear, also flip snap ring
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place gear #3, synchro ring #3 on the shaft and press the clutch gear on
Make sure, that the gear seat is dry and clean
In my case it took 1.2 tons to press it together
pay attention, that the 3 little pieces do sit into the recesses of the synchro ring
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Place a new snap ring next to the clutch gear
The snap ring must sit on the bottom of the groove and should not move
Then the tiny spacer before you place the needle bearing on the shaft
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The final snap ring next to gear #4 must also sit on the bottom of the groove
Input shaft done
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


new parts for output shaft do almost look the same like for the input shaft. Only difference are the different needle bearings. The one for gear #1 is still missing, but will hopefully arrive soon.
The snap ring to the right should have exactly 1.75mm like I mentioned before. I had to remove a burr to get it to size.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The clutch gear came off with very low force, so I organized a used one which also came with good synchro rings I used for gear #1 and #3
Old and worn to the left, new and not so worn to the right
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In this case the clutch gear is symmetrical and the slider is not.
Pressing the new clutch gear on the shaft did not take much force. The needle from the pressure gauge on the shop press did not move at all.
At least it was not a loose fit.
I pressed the clutch gear off and back again and applied loctite 461 to give it a better support.
My brother did calculate, that with this loctite 461, 0.6 tons would be necessary, to press the clutch gear off the shaft.
loctite 461 is supposed to be for application that need to be removed, so be warned if you use a high-strength loctite which will need 4 or 5 times the force to get things apart
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

This week, the final piece did arrive and then all went pretty quick.

Output shaft gear #1 assemble order: snap ring first, the thin shim and then needle bearing
the snap ring must sit at the bottom of the grove
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


#1 gear, then big washer followed by the strong snap ring
The snap ring does not snap into a groove and can be moved further by the shop press
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



gear side assembly

I did install the reverse-switch way later in the process, but with an empty and lightweight gearbox this task is must easier to do now.
manual says to tighten with 40Nm, but that's way too much. I tightened with 30Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Install oil seal.
I used special tool 3106, but any fitting pressure piece will do the job.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press the bearing for the output shaft into the case
open retainer side must face outside of gearbox
VW455 can be used, but I did use a homemade pressure piece which does sit flat on the bearing and does fit on the shaft
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place shift rod with the spring in the case
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


insert cup part and tighten with 35Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place a 16mm nut between cup part and case (I did not have such a nut, so I did use a 12mm one, which did the job also)
slide the output shaft together with the switch rod down into the bearing.
place revers gear on the shaft, flange pointing upwards.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press shaft into the bearing
check all movable parts for easy of movement. Nothing should bind.
Manual says to use VW510 as support, but I did use my homemade pressure piece
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


screw the detent pin like pictured in the middle hole to fix the switch rod in place
tighten to 25Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


place stud into the hole between #1/2 and #3/4 switch rod.
A magnet was a huge help to put it in place and a screwdriver to slide it into the lateral corridor
Also lay the reverse gear on the reverse gear of the output shaft. This will make installation of the input shaft easier
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


slide input shaft and switching rod down into the case
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


put tool 2011 in place
this is just a flat piece of steel with a 4.8mm ring welded on to support gear #4 and used while you press in the output shaft bearing
You can also lay the gear case half on a flat piece (having holes of course) and support gear #4 with a 4.8mm or maybe 5mm ring or shims.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press the bearing onto the shaft and into the case at the same time
VW does use VW510, but I did use my homemade pressure piece again
With the 4.8mm support, the bearing will first sit on the shaft and not fully into the case
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


that's why you have to press the bearing further into the case
remove 2011 before doing this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


add second detent pin
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


add small shims on input and output shaft and secure with snap ring
snap ring must sit save on the bottom of the groove
measure distance between shim and bearing
0.05mm could barely fit, but 0.10mm should not fit at all
tolerance 0.00mm ... 0.05mm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


measure recess of the bearings and use appropriate big shim, I posted about before
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


put shims and gasket in place
(I drained the gasket with curil K2 and did wipe off the remnant stuff off the gasket to leave a very thin layer. This will help to keep the case dry)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


close cover and tighten with 25Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1966 Bus | 1969 Bug | 1976 Passat LX two-door | 1984 Golf 2 C (daily driver)
There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't
Und läuft ...


Last edited by mr. lang on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

place second stud into the hole between middle switch rod and to be mounted reverse switch rod
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


this is how the reverse switch rod will be assembled.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


slide reverse switch rod and pin down into the case
slide reverse lever into the pin, so that the flange on the reverse lever is pointing to the case
reverse gear is sitting on bottom of the case
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


lift the reverse switch rod up and try to keep the lever in place on the pin
if did lift far enough, the lever will then drop down to the case bottom
now lift the reverse gear a few mm and slide the switch rod down under the reverse gear
let the reverse shift rod slide dawn in place
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


screw in the screw from the outside and let it grab the thread of the reverse lever
but don't screw the screw to far into the lever, or it will protrude the other side and will prevent doing the following measurement
now measure the distance between the lever and the middle switch rod
distance should be between 1.30mm ... 2.80mm
1.30mm did not fit ..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


so I had to back off the screw one thread
1.30mm does fit now and 2.80mm does not, so I'm within the tolerance
tighten screw to 35Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


time to check, if you can shift into any gear and time to check, if the interlock does work
the socket was just used as a lever
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


don't forget to put the magnet in place
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


gear case side done !
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1966 Bus | 1969 Bug | 1976 Passat LX two-door | 1984 Golf 2 C (daily driver)
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Und läuft ...


Last edited by mr. lang on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

clutch side assembly

both roller bearings must be pressed in that the top does sit flush with the case.
labels must point to pressure piece and should be readable after bearings are pressed in
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press green adapter in using VW433 or similar diameter pressure piece (does barely fit into adapter
oil seals on the other hand must be pressed in to the bottom of the hole
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


slide the shift rod into the case
screw pin down into recessed surface and tighten with 25Nm
a long 16mm socket will help a lot
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


press shift rod oil seal to the bottom of the hole
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


oil all moving parts
clutch case half done
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1966 Bus | 1969 Bug | 1976 Passat LX two-door | 1984 Golf 2 C (daily driver)
There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't
Und läuft ...


Last edited by mr. lang on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

assembly and finalizing

oil all moving parts, clean oil off gasket surface
place differential housing and main seal gasket on case
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


put clutch case half in place
pay attention to fit the shift pin into the cup piece
tighten case screws to 25Nm
Start crosswise around the differential housing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


flip case over, place bronze ring from drive shaft flange into the tapper of the differential housing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


mount spring and cupped washer from drive shaft flange like pictured
both driveshaft flanges do have different size oil seal surfaces. Use the bigger diameter one for the gear side
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


lean on the flange, push it down and tighten screw to 25Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Same for the clutch side. Here you have to use the small size oil surface flange
Use a pry bar and two screws to tightened the center screw
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Put clutch lever arm in place and grease all moving parts with MOS2 grease
snap arm cover in place
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The previously installed LUK release bearing has a very short sliding surface.
So the release bearing did tilt and did eat into the sleeve.
There was no problem before that with the stock release bearing.
I did replace the sleeve and the release bearing with a NOS one made by Sachs (having almost double the size of sliding surface.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now install the sleeve and tighten screws to 15Nm. These screws do come with a tread locking compound, but are now NLA. I used the old screws and applied loctite 243.
rotate lever arm upwards and slide release bearing in place.
No need to remove the springs
rotate lever arm back down
grease shaft with a very thin coat of MOS2 grease. a brush does make this task very easy.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


finally insert lubed speedometer drive gear into special nut
and screw nut with speedometer drive gear into the case
don't forget to add a tiny o-ring to the nut, or the gearbox will be covered in oil after a short period of time
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


084 gearbox done
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

engine prepared to be put back into the car
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


drin !!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


gearbox in too !!
torques:
gearbox to engine M10: 45Nm
gearbox to engine M12 up to 21.08.5: 55Nm
gearbox to engine M12 from 22.08.5: 80Nm
right support: missing, will add this info later
front support to gearbox: 45Nm
front support to u-shaped bracket: 60Nm
front u-shaped bracket to frame: 60Nm
left support to gearbox: 60Nm
left top support (coated sheet) to gearbox: 45Nm
left support and top support to rubber bracing: 60Nm
left rubber bracing to frame M8: 25Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


this is the simple shift coupler
the rubber washer and the setscrew are NLA
The factory setscrew has a pre-applied locking compound to secure the screw from backing off. I used the old screw and secured it with loctite 243
tighten this setscrew to 20Nm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


the coupler needs to be aligned with this following tool
VW did went crazy, when they did choose a name for it. No typo:
3105 is used for 084 transmission
3104 is used for 085 transmission
The purpose is to push the gearstick all the way to the right stop and bring the gearstick in a upright position exactly between #3 and #4
If you can fix the gearstick in that position (second person holding the gearstick steady), you dont need that tool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


open up the 8mm screw, which is securing the coupler to the switch rod comming from the gearstick
fix gearstick (with 3105 or 3104 or by holding it) between #3 and #4 all way to the right
bring gearbox into neutral between #3 and #4
align coupler so that the ball is centered into the u-shaped metal bracket
tighten screw to 20Nm
test if you can shift into every gear
shift coupler installed

if you encounter problems getting into gears, then probably the u-shaped metal bracket is bend. Just squeeze it back together using a bench vise, so that the left and right side does barely touch the rubber washer (or rubber ball on later couplers).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


filled gearbox with oil and installed driveshafts
I used the old ones I had in before I did pull the gearbox, to see, if they caused the vibration.
The inner cv joints had a cork gasket which did rip during disassemble, so I replaced them with Dirko (some kind of rtv silicone)
The driveshafts will later be replaced by the restored stock factory ones

bottom stuff almost done, only clutch cover, electrical parts and connections missing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

In the previous pictures of the shift coupler, I had one washer missing.
Just realized this, when studying the parts books again.
It's made of soft 5mm foam rubber with 11mm ID and 20mm OD
It does push the two parts of the coupler apart to remove slop.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


head gasket put in place supported by two cut head screws
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


head mounted and valves adjusted (and engine filled with oil)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


behind the engine
I had a very very difficult time to find pictures of unmolested cars, where I could see, how clamps, zip ties and wires are mounted, so I did put everything back together based on memory and my old pictures I made.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


drive belt mounted
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


bottom completely done
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


tin mounted
look at this rusty washer Shocked
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


only things missing now are the fuel-, carburetor- and preheat systems

Coming closer to the end, how should I run in this engine?
Like a beetle, giving 2000rpm for half an hour?
I asked my pro builder about this and he told me, that the best way would be to set it under load (drive around town) as soon as possible and not let it rev without load.
But I first need to adjust the carburetor to do so, which will take me at least 15 minutes, so immediately driving around town is not possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

Rarely will 2 mechanics agree on the right method on breaking in an engine. New car engines are never broke in and most of them are fine. So you could do nothing since that is the way it's done by 99.9% of all engines.

If you can, I would drive it under load so the rings will seat to the walls. The more miles the merrier. What happens if it breaks down? Do not drive far from your shop in case something was not done right. Have your cell phone and a contact person on stand by.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

Thank you Butcher for your help and hints!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

manifold, water hoses and distributor mounted
I did later remove the cap and ignition wires to get better access to put the carburetor on
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


carburetor mounted
I did not yet connect the fuel hoses, because I don't want to remove the plugs from the fuel pumps fuel line and eventually dry out the fuel pump. I will connect them right before I fire up the engine.
The plugs are for pneumatic applications: https://www.imi-precision.com/de/de/search/q/stopfen and very useful.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


finally I did a pressure test of the coolant system using VAG 1274
I did pump up the hoses to 1bar which did unfortunately very slowly drop indicating an air/water leak
The reservoir cap did open up at 1.4bar, but did then keep pressure, so it is not the VAG 1274 tool that does leak.
I need to solve this and will try with soapy water sprayed on the many connections. Hopefully it is something obviously.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does anybody use a liquid sealant on the hose connections like Curil T or RTV or something like that?
I did avoid this, because I did not want to contaminate the cooling system and plug the radiator.
All I did was to clean the hoses and nozzles from calcium deposits in the hope that it will be leakproof.
The hoses are all flexible and not hardened.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: need 084 manual gearbox advice - UPDATE started tear-down Reply with quote

Sealer is just a band aid for someone that is too lazy to prepare the gasket/hose surfaces properly. There are places where sealer should be used [3 way joints, bolt threads, etc] but if you have a problem sealing a hose, then fix it right.

Whenever you need to use sealer [many new engines have no gaskets at all] then the sealer that you see ooze out, is wasted sealer. In other words, all the sealer that you see is the amount you wasted. You should only see a slight amount. 1mm bead is more than enough.
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