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Foamy oil in transmission
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elpres
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:47 am    Post subject: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

I just wanted to have a look inside the tranny now that I finally bought the big 16mm tool to unscrew the oil nut.
This is what I saw? Is it normal? Just water in the oil I guess?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Another thing. The tranny seems a bit more moist with oil I guess towards the gear shift assembly. Where would this oil come from?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Looks like you may have a significant amount of water in your oil. Why don't you just drain it and refill with fresh oil no matter what, tranny oil will last a long long time, much longer than a lot of people here are willing to admit, but it will not last forever.
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elpres
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Looks like you may have a significant amount of water in your oil. Why don't you just drain it and refill with fresh oil no matter what, tranny oil will last a long long time, much longer than a lot of people here are willing to admit, but it will not last forever.


I will change the oil that’s for sure. Can I spray some solvent into the tranny to get all this foam out? When I look inside, there is foam al over.!?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

elpres wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
Looks like you may have a significant amount of water in your oil. Why don't you just drain it and refill with fresh oil no matter what, tranny oil will last a long long time, much longer than a lot of people here are willing to admit, but it will not last forever.


I will change the oil that’s for sure. Can I spray some solvent into the tranny to get all this foam out? When I look inside, there is foam al over.!?


This will sound wasteful....but upon seeing what you have.....its not. Fill it up a correct but bargain brand gear oil....run it for 20-30 miles to heat it up and distribute it.....then drain it and refill with good name brand gear oil. Ray
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elpres
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
elpres wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
Looks like you may have a significant amount of water in your oil. Why don't you just drain it and refill with fresh oil no matter what, tranny oil will last a long long time, much longer than a lot of people here are willing to admit, but it will not last forever.


I will change the oil that’s for sure. Can I spray some solvent into the tranny to get all this foam out? When I look inside, there is foam al over.!?


This will sound wasteful....but upon seeing what you have.....its not. Fill it up a correct but bargain brand gear oil....run it for 20-30 miles to heat it up and distribute it.....then drain it and refill with good name brand gear oil. Ray


I understand. Im doimg sort of the same with the engine, as I just rebuild it.
I’ll fill it up, and run it for a short period. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

As for the oil leak on the front of the trans, where is the breather on that trans? On my syncro trans its on top front and the tube was missing on mine allowing for a leak all over the top/front of trans.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Yes, there is a vent hole on the top just aft of the nose cone. Most are a little wet around there, the added water likely made the tide get so high it leaked alot.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

drive it around the block then drain it and refill it with stalube GL4 from NAPA. Do it again next year and that will get most of the problem. Do not run solvent in it.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Since your tranny is on the ground, drain it the best you can and then stand it up on the bellhousing and let any trapped oil run to the differential housing. Let it sit this way for a couple of days and then sit it flat again and let the oil drain again for at least several hours more

I would be concerned that the water may have caused rust to some of the bearings, if the tranny begins to make a lot of whining noise you are going to want to get it back out quickly and send it to a rebuilder.
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bigbore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Ok heres my take.
Foamy oil does not both me and you cant tell by the foam if there is water in it once you drain it you can.
if it were me at this stage I would clean it take off the bell housing look at the R&P for ware and do a nice clean out take off the noise cone look for worn and/or broken parts see how worn the main bearing is.
Then reinstall the housing with new seals and using a new gasket on the bellhousing and RTV on the noise cone no gasket.
and yes as BD stated the vent is why there is a greasy mess around the noise cone.

One more thing there is a good possibility it has been rebuilt vw didn't paint there bus tranys.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

I would go by what's sticking to the magnet at the drain plug...
if you've got what looks like a christmas ornament sticking to it, you're screwed.
If it has just enough material sticking to it to toss in an standard letter
envelope & mail somewhere, you got lucky.
But yeah drain that milkshake out of there.
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elpres
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Thank you guys for all the posts.
I managed to find the vent hole.
I looked at the drain plug, and there was a little metal shavings and 1 piece 2x3 mm. so not perfect but normal I guess.
I’m considering taking of the cone and have a look inside. What would I need afterwards? Gasket kit? Sealer?
Never had a look inside a vw transmission before..
What is R&P short for?
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TomWesty
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

Ring and pinion I believe. If Bigbore says you just need to use RTV (Silicone sealer) and no gasket, then thats probably what you need since he has a ton of experience on bus trannies. I’m not sure which flavor of RTV though. I’m guessing the Permatex high temp.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

I preferer ultra gray I also just run the bolts or nuts (depending on year) lightly let the RTV setup then tighten up that way you don't just push out all the sealant. Also can you post a photo of said piece off the drain plug?

R&P stands for ring and pinon.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

The amount of dirt and grime on the nose area is for the most part normal considering the miles it looks to have on it. It's not so much the oil is weeping out. is more the road dirt the oil attracts that sticks to the case. it always looks worse than it is. And once it reaches a certain point the built up dirt will "wick" the oil slowly spreading it more as the miles click by, seemingly without dripping a drop.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

sodbuster wrote:
The amount of dirt and grime on the nose area is for the most part normal considering the miles it looks to have on it. It's not so much the oil is weeping out. is more the road dirt the oil attracts that sticks to the case. it always looks worse than it is. And once it reaches a certain point the built up dirt will "wick" the oil slowly spreading it more as the miles click by, seemingly without dripping a drop.


lot of the build up is waxoyl that was used as undercoating on these buses. The dirt embeds itself into the waxoyl, and the oil softens it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

A 17mm tool will fit better and not round out the transmission plugs, too.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
The amount of dirt and grime on the nose area is for the most part normal considering the miles it looks to have on it. It's not so much the oil is weeping out. is more the road dirt the oil attracts that sticks to the case. it always looks worse than it is. And once it reaches a certain point the built up dirt will "wick" the oil slowly spreading it more as the miles click by, seemingly without dripping a drop.


lot of the build up is waxoyl that was used as undercoating on these buses. The dirt embeds itself into the waxoyl, and the oil softens it.


Every 50K miles or so, one can just take a 1" putty knife (and a small hammer if needed) and scrape or chip the build up off. These rigs were never designed to be clean as per today's standards. As late as the late seventies the roads all had a dirty oily streak down the middle of each lane from draft tubes and unsealed gear boxes dripping oil as they went down the roadways. I can well remember Chevy six cylinder engines that just had holes in the valve covers to vent the engine and thus were covered from top to bottom with oil pretty much by the time the proud new owner got home for picking his shiny new pride and joy up from the dealership.
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Jim Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Foamy oil in transmission Reply with quote

As bigbore suggest remove the bell housing clean and inspect , post some photos if you like for evaluation.Also clean the outside as best as you can as the dirt holds moisture and that is not good for the entire housing...

Good luck,
Jim
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