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Animarex Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2018 Posts: 5 Location: AK
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:55 pm Post subject: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Hey there,
Picked up a 1972 1600cc DP bug recently and finally got her running.
Problem is, it will not idle. I need to check the fuel pressure, not sure if its normal for the in-line fuel filter to not be completely full (seems to stop at 1/2).
Car runs as long as i feed it throttle, and the wind up is very long. For example, if I pump the gas the RPMs rise, after a delay, and take some time to fall (as if it were still getting more fuel). This makes me think its not getting a consistent flow.
All the while, I am smoking out my entire neighborhood with light white-blue smoke (oil). Thing that stumps me, is that it is primarily coming out of the exhaust/heater on the passenger side only, where the fresh air hose would connect (not currently equipped). I pulled the spark plugs and they look dry, not black. In addition, the passenger side intake manifold is EXTREMELY hot in comparison to the driver side.
Valve adjustments completed, oil replaced and filled, timing set but will double check it hasn't changed.
Thoughts, tips, advice?
Thanks |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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I quit worrying about the 1/2 full filter years ago on my car. I'm not sure why it doesn't fill up, but it doesn't, and it causes no harm.
Are you sure it's oil smoke? Could you be burning rats nest out of the heater box? Was this engine not ran for a long time before you got it running? |
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Animarex Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2018 Posts: 5 Location: AK
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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I'm glad to hear about the fuel amount.
Yes, I'm pretty positive. I played with the idle mixture screw and it now idles on its own but won't stay alive at low rpm.
The previous owner said it had been sitting for a year since it was last driven, and that it ran fine then. So there could be a possibility for the rats nests! I will fire it up and let it get up to temperature tomorrow and see how it acts with the new mixture ratio. |
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joey1320 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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What carburetor and distributor do you have?
What's your fuel pressure?
What's the overall condition of the engine?
Can you post pictures?
Take apart the carburetor and give it a thorough cleaning/rebuild. Sitting for over a year will cause issues. Check you fuel tank for any contaminants. Do a base setting for the carburetor once you have taken it apart and cleaned it.
Regarding the oil smoke, what's your compression?
If the smoke s that bad, I would have to imagine you are burning oil and a compression test, followed by a leak down test will help determine the cause. _________________ **1971 Super Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Last edited by joey1320 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9880 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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joey1320 wrote: |
What carburetor and distributor do you have?
What's your fuel pressure?
What's the overall condition of the engine?
Can you post pictures?
Take apart the carburetor and give it a thorough cleaning/rebuild. Sitting for over a year will cause issues. Check you fuel tank for any contaminants. Do a base setting for the carburetor once you have taken it apart and cleaned it.
Regarding the oil smoke, what's your compression?
If the snokr is that bad, I would have to imagine you are burning oil and a compression test, followed by a leak down test will help determine the cause. |
On the compression test. You can do it, but if there is that much oil in the cylinders, that oil will seal everything up and give you false readings, in a good way. They are misleading. You would probably get higher than normal 125psi.
The leak down is the way to go on this one. During it , open your oil filler cap and feel the air! If there, you got bad sealing rings! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4391 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Buggeee wrote: |
Since the smoke is coming out of the open fresh air hole in your heater box, could it be that your valve cover or push-rod tubes are leaking oil onto the heater box on that side?
Good luck! |
that wood be my guess two. guess one wood bee pushrod tube holy rust.witch wood bee also covered in #2....as for the idle...stock crab? idle silynoid? |
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joey1320 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Buggeee wrote: |
Since the smoke is coming out of the open fresh air hole in your heater box, could it be that your valve cover or push-rod tubes are leaking oil onto the heater box on that side?
Good luck! |
Oh wait, yeah you're correct. Check for oil leaks on engine which is being burned by the heater boxes/exhaust.
Don't worry about the compression/leak tests. _________________ **1971 Super Project
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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Animarex Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2018 Posts: 5 Location: AK
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Hey guys, sorry for the late response. Been outta town for a few days.
To update, I have installed a new 34PICT stock carb. It runs a lot smoother now, although still has the same problem.
I noticed the passenger side cylinders (1 &2) are running extremely hot, so I pulled the plug and it was pretty dark, checked compression at 110PSI in Cylinder 1. On the other hand, The driver side cylinders are extremely cold, so I pulled the plug on #4 and it was completely wet, no sign of spark. Tested spark with the plug out and it was fine. Checked compression in cylinder #4 and got 125PSI.
I know what you're thinking -- leak down test. Yes, I will have to go get a kit and do that, but in the meantime my next step is to (roughly) disassemble the intake manifold and hope there isn't a rag or something in there.
I will have to check which distributor model it is, and upload some pictures. Honestly I couldn't tell ya the condition, but I've never seen a dirtier engine in my life. I think I'll have to power wash it to see where the leaks are actually coming from.
Previous owner said he pulled the engine out to upgrade it, but I'm starting to trust my suspicion that there is some damage in there. I will check out the push rod tubes and report back. |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Have you replaced the spark plugs, they do foul and quit working. Have you replaced the ignition wires? Also the distributer cap. Pull out the wires and look in the holes, or are they have gray corrosion, they should be copper colored. also look inside the cap for dirt grease, etc. The inside needs to be clean, or the spark from the rotor can jump to the grime instead of the spark plug lead.
It really sounds ignition to me. We know you have fuel (wet plug), you have plenty of compression (125 psi), so the only thing left is ignition.
What many people do not realize is that a bad or fouled spark plug will produce spark when it is pulled from the engine and just at atmospheric pressure. However when it is in the engine and subjected to high pressure (125 psi), a fouled plug can not ionize a path from the center electrode and the tip, thus we have no spark. The ionization process is what makes static electricity discharge, and lightning strikes possible.
So if you haven't' changed the plugs that would be the first order of business. If you have, switch them to different cylinders and check the results. Also remember, just because something is new doesn't mean that it works. Many a people have been fooled by spark plugs that fire in the air, but not in the engine, including myself. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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You may have the end piece of the intake manifold hung up wedged a bit on the 3,4 side so it's got a vacuum leak and that is part of the problem. Probably needs a new gasket to the head there too. I would remove the heat exchangers and have them cleaned or at least get a few cans of carb cleaner and try to get that oil out of them so they don't asphyxiate you. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Danwvw wrote: |
You may have the end piece of the intake manifold hung up wedged a bit on the 3,4 side so it's got a vacuum leak and that is part of the problem. Probably needs a new gasket to the head there too. I would remove the heat exchangers and have them cleaned or at least get a few cans of carb cleaner and try to get that oil out of them so they don't asphyxiate you. |
If he had an air leak at 3 and 4 the plug wouldn't be wet, but dry. However, I do agree with you on cleaning the heat exchangers. However, I would use the least smelling solvent that will work. Simple green totally awesome etc. Otherwise, you get the lovely smell of carb cleaner for a couple of months. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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Multi69s wrote: |
Danwvw wrote: |
You may have the end piece of the intake manifold hung up wedged a bit on the 3,4 side so it's got a vacuum leak and that is part of the problem. Probably needs a new gasket to the head there too. I would remove the heat exchangers and have them cleaned or at least get a few cans of carb cleaner and try to get that oil out of them so they don't asphyxiate you. |
If he had an air leak at 3 and 4 the plug wouldn't be wet, but dry. However, I do agree with you on cleaning the heat exchangers. However, I would use the least smelling solvent that will work. Simple green totally awesome etc. Otherwise, you get the lovely smell of carb cleaner for a couple of months. |
Well, Why do you want to cancel out my thoughts on this, It could very well have enough of an air leak to not fire yet be getting enough gas to wet the plugs. It could just be a fouled plug though, they don't work sometimes installed yet appear to fire fine out of the engine. Usually, if it's an air leak they will run on the side with the problem once revved high enough. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Animarex Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2018 Posts: 5 Location: AK
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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I took spark plug from cylinder 1 and swapped it with cylinder 4. Car ran, pretty much just like before. When I pulled the plug, it was covered in oil, and the one that wasn't firing before is now firing. I foresee some cylinder or ring replacement.
I have uploaded a few pics of the overall health of the exterior of the engine, so let me know what you think.
You'll have to excuse my lack of vocabulary here.. The piping on the exhaust that runs down from the intake manifold to the exit housing of the exhaust (you can see this pipe just above the picture of me pointing at the exhaust port), appears to be smoking pretty intensely, and is extremely hot.
In addition, the exhaust port on the driver side looks like its leaking oil. I have included pictures of this as well.
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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I hate to say this, but I think that its is time for a overhaul. I can tell that the heads have been replaced in the near past due to lack of any carbon build up in the rocker arm area. However, the rest of the engine is a mess. As you mentioned, THERE IS a massive difference in temperature difference between cyl 2 & 4 (red hot, blue cold). You also appear to have the breather block with duct tape (Yellow arrow).
If you have excessive blowby, which you probably due, plugging the breather will force oil to leak through many different places of the engine (which it is). Also, YOU MUST ALWAYS have the heater boxes connected to the fan shroud outlets. If not you are loosing a vast majority of cooling air for the engine, and you are over heating the heater boxes.
I don't want to seem like an a-hole, but, I'm going to be blunt, because that engine is in a world of hurt. There are no quick fixes, and the pics that you have posted shows that there are many issues that need to be addressed. With all the all of the things wrong, and many oil leaks, you need to get a manual, read up on it and be prepared for a total rebuild (at least the top end). _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Animarex Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2018 Posts: 5 Location: AK
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Idle and Oil Burn Problem |
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I appreciate the straightforwardness. I'm still unraveling a lot of the hidden mysteries from the previous owner. I have 2 manuals, they've helped tremendously, but the main goal here was just to get the engine in the car and see if it even turned over!
She's a project for sure, so I'll be back once I get it all taken apart to show the condition of the internals. |
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