Yet another WBX oil drain time-sert fix thread

[boxer74]

My newly rebuilt 2.1 WBX has stripped oil drain threads. I've got the Time-sert 1415C kit on order with 9.4mm inserts. From reviewing old threads, it looks like if the counterbore tool is used until it bottoms out, it results in the insert being too deep. See first pic below. Looks like somebody else made a custom tool to prevent this from happening. See second pic below. Has anybody come up with a way using the supplied time-sert counter bore tool to prevent this from happening. I suppose you would need to stop short before bottoming out but how to ensure it is the correct depth for a flush installation. I have never done this type of work before so want to make sure I get it right.

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74 Super
84 Westy

[stormforge]

I've done a few of these and noticed the same issue. My approach was to just go slowly and check frequently to make sure I wasn't too deep.

The timesert is a great solution but there is another issue to be aware of -- from a post a few years ago:

There is a bit of a "bug" I think in the timesert installation process. The tool which flares the insert for a tight fit is the same one which is used to install the insert into the newly tapped hole you've made. The danger here is that if the insert doesn't screw smoothly into the new hole (for example if it binds on a little chip from the tapping) then you risk flaring the insert before it is fully seated in into the shoulder recess you've cut.

My approach was to thread a 14x1.5 nut onto the insert tool to hold the insert in place on the tool while it is completely seated into the new hole. Then take the nut off and run the tool through the insert to flare the threads and lock it in.

-Bill
'89 Syncro

[boxer74]

[stormforge]

Yup -- I just eyeball the insert depth -- it certainly doesn't need to be perfect, if you end up a tiny bit high/low it won't make any difference.

For the nut that's right -- the idea is to prevent the tool from starting to flare the insert until you're ready (which is when you take the nut off).

Best,
-Bill

[IdahoDoug]

No experience on the oil drain fix, but worth noting that if you insert it too deep it would prevent the last of the oil from draining by having a bit of the insert protruding up proud of the oil pan inside.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[boxer74]

Just completed this yesterday and there seems to still be a wee bit of oil seepage. The time-sert is not 100% perfectly perpendicular to the engine case, but it's close. Perhaps at the factory torque of 18 ft-lbs with a tubular copper crush washer, it didn't crush enough to seal over the outer threads on the time-sert. I also forgot to add red loctite.

This morning, I torqued it even more to 36 ft-lbs (same as factory spec on my newer vehicles with steel oil pans) to see if that would seal better.

If not, my next step may be to try the nylon washers that have been discussed by tencentlife. I hope the fact that the time-sert is not totally perpendicular will not be an issue. It's not off by very much at all. When I used the tap guide, I made sure to keep it level with the case, so not sure how it ended up being a tiny bit off. Hard to keep it perfect when working on the ground under the engine.

Hopefully I haven't just created a major issue for my van. Thoughts and input appreciated. Thanks.
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74 Super
84 Westy

[mikemtnbike]

My timesert fix weeps the littlest bit itself. Like, less than a 1/4 qt between oil changes- and this is combined with my very slightly weeping oil pump cover.

So, my input is I decided to not worry about that, its a lot better than a stripped drain plug hole. I will be attemping to reseal the oil pump cover sometime this next year, but I'm going to live with the drain plug as is except will try a different washer at next oil change.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[boxer74]

Seems we're not the only ones with this issue:

https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-di...-plug.html
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74 Super
84 Westy

[featherfreak]

Hey guys and gals
I’m about to give this one a go, just want to make sure I’m understanding things.
As far as using the time sert tools, use a drill to bore out and then counter sink. Once that is done use a tee handle to tap and then thread in the time sert. Is that correct?
Any particular grease to but on drill bit, etc. that works better then another?
Thanks

[marcotheturbosteamengine]