Want to play a game? Otherwise known as "fix my engine mistakes"

[Sharp64]

This is going to be longwinded so if you're not interested, cool. But here goes.

I've been rebuilding/building an engine for the last couple of years. Several stops/starts/delay. I am finally nearing the finish line just waiting for some minor things to button everything up and get it in the car. Some of my choices in components were made due to use which has changed over the course of the build. Went from a replacement for the tired 1300 in my 64 sedan to use in a street driven dune buggy, and then back to use in the 64. I know mistakes have been made in choices of components. I do plan on putting this motor in the car and have a feeling it will come out shortly after for disassembly and changes. However, I do not want to discard all the parts and feel that many can and should be reused to build two engines, one for the 64 and one for the DB.

Here is what I have:

1776 for 64:

Single relief H5 case that has been line bored, thrust cut, opened for 90.5 and case savers.
W90 cam/engle lifters
AA 90.5 p/c
OG reground/balanced crank
Mofoco 041 heads opended to 90.5/ss valves/single hd springs
Scat 1:1.25 solid rockers
vintage speed 1 1/2" equal length exhaust
SS windage PR tubes
recently rebuilt Kadrons
Thin Line sump with filter
Rebuilt stock connecting rods
ACN HD stock pushrods

1600 in Dune Buggy:

Stock as far as I know with AS41 case
34pict-3
Single port stock heads
Bazookas
German 034 dist w/points

My plan is to most likely bump up to a 1915 in the 64 and transfer many of the parts to the dunebuggy. 1915 should scoot the sedan around pretty well and a 1776 should do well in the buggy.


Here is what I am thinking:

64/1915:

New case
Mofoco 042 heads with single HD springs
ratio rockers - 1-1.4 or 1-1.25?
Keep the stock crank as its 8 hole modded
Cam --- either a split duration or....? Or is the W90 good for this?
40/44 Kadrons - I rebuilt them and I would like to use them. I can put larger vents/rejet as needed-also interested in suggestions
Distributor - I have a rebuilt 019, but considering using the 034 and having the kads drilled for vacuum.
1 1/2" VS equal length exhaust
Keeping the 6volt 200mm flywheel
CB Maxiflow



DB/1776:

AS41 case unless for some reason its fubar, than ...?
Mofoco 041 heads
W90cam
Distributor - either 019 or?
Solid Rockers - ratio?
regrind crank
AA sidewinder exhaust
whatever flywheel is on it
Carb?
CB thinline with filter

The 1600 is in the dune buggy and I haven't disassembled it so I have no idea about the case. As far as I know its good, but may need cleaned up. So I plan on keeping the AS41 case and getting it opened up and line bored if necessary. If much else needs to be done I may just use the H case thats already been opened up. Carbs, Im thinking maybe a single Weber IDF? I would like center mount due to the body cutout.

I would prefer to keep a stock cam for both is possible as I'm sketchy doing rocker geometry, but I can grit my teeth and try it.

All positive input is welcome. Hell if you think the setup I have for the 64 is great, LMK as well. My fears are the case isnt going to hold up and the heads are simply all wrong for how I have it set up right now.

Also interested in thought on rods.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Brian_e]

If you are not wanting to buy a new crank, and keep the Kad's, I would build this.

-GOOD ported 37x32 heads. Should be in the 140+cfm range with about a 58-60cc intake runner. Good single springs.
-Web 218/119 advanced +2 deg.
-AA 94 A's, grant rings
-light flywheel
-30mm vents in the Kad's
-your VSpeed exhaust
9.0:1, .045" deck

I built The same thing, and it was a kick ass little runner in my bug. Lots of torque, but still revved. Should be an easy upgrade to the parts you already have. really you could just reuse the 041's, but you might not want the split duration cam with them. You could run a straight pattern 218 because of the larger intake port volume.

Another option instead of buying new heads would be to buy a 74mm crank and 5.325 I-beam rods instead. If you did that, I would build this.

-74x94 2054cc
-your 041 heads, maybe reworked a touch if needed
-Web 163
-1.3 rockers
-9.2cr, .045" dh
-32mm vents in the kads
-1 1/2" sidewinder header.

For the dune buggy:
-1776
-W90 cam
-rebuild the single port heads, blended bowls, good valve job,
-34pict carb, 28mm vent. make sure the heat tube is clear.
-normal 1 3/8" baja header with heat risers modified.
-light flywheel

Brian

[Sharp64]

^^ interesting. Couple of things.

1 I hate buggy exhausts that have the merged tubes or snakes nest in front of the pulley. I burned myself way too much trying to tune or adjust timing when I had them. I will be using a sidewinder or may still use the cannons.

2. Reworking the heads isn’t a great option as I don’t trust anyone locally and it’s grates my ass having to spend $50 each way to ship them somewhere to get reworked. Unfortunately this includes even reworking the single ports. I would opt for buying at least one new set of heads. This will essentially necessistate keeping the 041s on the 1776 and buying new heads for the 64 whatever size it ends up.

I like that everything is being reused excepting the 1.25 rockers but I could use those on the 1776.

I could get the flywheel lightened. How light?
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Brian_e]

The 041 head and the w90 cam on a 1776 are a little bit of a mismatch especially with a stockish carb. A standard 041 has quite a bit of port volume, and not a lot of flow considering its size. This makes for slow airspeed. Not sure if Roy's 041's are the same, or if they he has changed then in his casting.

I think the 2054cc option with your 041's might come about the same price as new heads, and a better option then the 1915cc. A web 163, web 110, FK43, w120, c45 or similar cam in the 250-256deg @ ,050" range. I would stick with a Web 163 myself. Your VS exhaust will be fine, the Kad's will be the new limit, but with a vent change they will hang in there. You would need to order a 74mm crank, cam, lifters, push rods, a lightened flywheel, and 5.325" i-beam rods.

On the buggy engine, I would get a set of Roy's stock valve heads if you dont want to ship yours off. Keep the w90, stock push rods shortened, add the 1.25's to the intake only (Torben's trick). Stock carb with 28mm vent, lightened flywheel, etc. You will have to make sure to do the heat riser mod to the header. A buggy doesn't need much power to move it around. Keep it simple and cheap. I wouldn't hesitate to reuse the H case on the buggy if it measures out OK. Get the AS41 machined and use it on the 2054cc.

I like to run 12.5lbs flywheels on most everything. If you have a stock flywheel matched to a crank, most any machine shop can chuck up your flywheel and turn down the outside edge.

Brian

[Sharp64]

Gives me something to chew on. I do truly prefer keeping a stock crank but I’ll look at it. I got the 041’s as it was mentioned the 040’s were good with the cam etc. I figured the 041s would be better but after ordering and doing some additional research realized I screwed up.

Any additional input would be welcomed.

Odd point of interest. When I set the rocker geometry, I purchased the PRs that were supposed to be specifically for those rockers but they were too short. Stock pushrods ended up working better than the shortened ones.

IF I wanted to stay 1915 though, this would work correct?

-69x94- 1915
-your 041 heads, maybe reworked a touch if needed
-Web 163
-1.3 rockers
-9.2cr, .045" dh
-32mm vents in the kads
-VS exhaust.

I could probably live with shipping the heads back to Mofoco for them to open them up more. How would the 1.25s work with this? I could open up the AS41 saving me the cost of a new case.


The H case has been machined already and tested for cracks etc. Should be good to go. Just listening to the opinions about them has me leery.

That would essentially leave me buying a new exhaust and heads for the DB. Something for me to think about.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[vwracerdave]

Sell all your SP stuff. Use the money to get a set of dual IDF's for the 1915cc. Put the Kads on the 1776cc.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Sharp64]

Not enough SP stuff worth anything. Used 1600 SP heads aren’t worth the cost of shipping. Locally, the 1300 in the 64 that the current built 1776 was supposed to replace won’t bring more than a couple of hundred.

I know I’m a pain in the ass about it but I really would like to keep a centermount for the DB due to the body cutout. Yeah I’m weird.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[oprn]

No you are not nuts to want to stick with a center mount carb on the Buggy. I have had both Kadrons and Webers on mine and they are a total pain to work on tucked away under that body. Air cleaners are a real challenge to fit too.

However I would find it tough to lose the power and throttle response I have now...

It all depends on what you want out of it, just a nice around town driver with the occasional highway run can be had with a center mount.

[modok]

Roy's 041 are a bit better than the 041 brazil, he puts in a slightly larger ID exhaust seat, and a smaller ID intake seat that actually has enough meat to have three angles.

VW manifold DP end castings only flow 120-130 cfm on a good day.
IMO a set of heads made to match the end castings best, for a engine smaller than two liters.... would have a 37.5mm intake valve.

If you make it singleport then the manifold is even more of a restriction, and how you size the heads and carb for that IMO....would be entirely based on what you come up with for a manifold. I know there are some aluminum end pieces made for SP at one time, but I don't know how big they are or how they flow, or even why they made them from aluminum, because they don't need to be aluminum.

[Sharp64]

I’m confused by the SP references. I plan on DP for both engines.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Sharp64]

[Brian_e]

It all comes down to how much $$ you want to spend here. I think some of the other posters might be confused you are trying to build 2 different engines here by splitting up what you already own.

Buggy engine:
A 1776cc with a W90, reworked single port heads, and a 34mm carb will be great in a buggy. Lots of low end, not a huge top end. The CB dual port center section, and the empi single port aluminum end castings will make it even better. Very few parts to buy, and a solid easy to assemble engine. If you dont want the single port heads, stock dual ports with a light clean up are all you will need.

Bug engine:
I still vote for the new 74mm crank, rods, web 163, and reuse your 041's, Kad's, and VS exhaust for a 2054cc in the bug. A little tweaking, careful parts selection, and detailed assembly, and it should go together easy and run real strong in the bug.

Brian

[Sharp64]

[Brian_e]

Roy was buying single port cores if they were in decent shape not too long ago. Maybe you could talk him into a partial trade using your 3 sets of SP heads on a new set of stock valve heads?

As for the difference.....even though I do enjoy a nicely thought out slightly warmed over SP engine.... the dual port is usually easier, and slightly better unless the SP heads are well done. Power difference isn't huge, but dual port carb selection is better, and you will be working with new heads with better capability if they were to be ported.

Brian

[modok]

Sorry for the confusion, but in the first post you describe 4 different engines.

IMO singleports aren't a bad idea. You will give up at least 10% torque/power as compared to what you could have with DP heads all else equal, but so what? You can still build a SP that beats the pants off any factory engine, and they have some nice qualities too, very smooth powerband, works BETTER with a single carb, good mileage, and they seem to be more durable than DP heads too.

[vwracerdave]

Sharp take a deep breath and jump in with both feet. Build a 1915cc, Panchito heads, dual IDF's, W-120 cam and enjoy life at the level you really want. I'd bet there is plenty of room to put the Kads on the 1776cc and into the Dunebuggy. Trust me after the burnouts are complete you will thank me with a smile.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Sharp64]

Not really a matter of jumping in with both feet or not. I built the current 1776 as an exercise to learn. Didn’t really NEED to build it, but wanted the experience and knew I would make mistakes. I’m long on ambition, but short on technical knowledge and I learn better by doing than reading. I would like something bigger faster better but also don’t want to toss money out the window, so trying to make use of the parts I have within reason. I spent $700 on the 041’s. There has to be a setup that would utilize them.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[[email protected]]

I'm having a bit of a hard time following everything here BUT here is some info on my 041's. The flow 139cfm at .500" at 25" and have 60cc intake port volume. For comparison, my 040's have 57cc intake port volume, my 042's have 62cc intake port volume and my 050's have 64cc intake port volume.

I have run my 041's on everything from a stock 1600 with a 34 pict 3 to a 1914 with a weber progressive or dual brosal/solex single barrel 40's. The 041's are the most versatile of my heads. Obviously they have limitations because of the exhaust valve size but if you are looking for low to mid range, they are great.
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