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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Xevin, you’re preaching to the choir. These guys are fluent—older—VW folks. They just have this weird aversion to 034’s. They don’t give a reason for their opinions, but I assume it has to do with finding a blown engine or two with an inoperative, or aftermarket 034, or one that wasn’t timed correctly. Who knows? They merely state their aversion and say it happens.
My purpose of starting this thread was to see if others had run into properly timed, but over advancing Bosch 034-caused blown motors. As I suspected, none of those replying here have ever heard of this occurring. I wanted to take this information back to my friend in order to settle his nerves a bit.
His Ghia has a strong engine, but he doesn’t have the proper carburetor/distributor. Hes currently running a 34 pict 3 with a German 09. He’s tried all kinds of differences, and admitted when I loaned him my spare Bosch 034 that the engine ran much better. Yet, he’s getting these other opinions and they’re confusing him.
Hopefully, I can eventually get him to bite the bullet and get the proper combination, regardless of what his gurus have been preaching to him.
And, Glenn, I’m sure that vendor is selling Chinese 09’s.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7632
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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That’s the problem. A lot of mechanics in the 70s replaced OEM with OEM. Then the 80s rolled around and the fix was a 009. Which worked......kinda. Don’t get me started on a H30/31 carb replacement look it was a cheap fix in the day. And it works. But now us old fucks want buttery smooth OG stuff. Thank goodness we have Glenn, Tsab, Bill, Tim, and Nathan restoring the proper pieces for stock performance.
You passing out full size candy bars this Halloween? _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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X 2. Amen.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Xevin wrote: |
That’s the problem. A lot of mechanics in the 70s replaced OEM with OEM. Then the 80s rolled around and the fix was a 009. Which worked......kinda. Don’t get me started on a H30/31 carb replacement look it was a cheap fix in the day. And it works. But now us old fucks want buttery smooth OG stuff. Thank goodness we have Glenn, Tsab, Bill, Tim, and Nathan restoring the proper pieces for stock performance.
You passing out full size candy bars this Halloween? |
A lot of these same California, expert VW mechanics believe thermostats and flaps are not needed in VW's either. Of course, none of these experts had engineering degrees like the employee's at VW who deemed them to be important.
As to the 034 question. Did I miss it, what did they mean these will "over advance"? Mechanically? Vacuum advance? This makes zero since to me.
All the aluminum Bosch distributors from 1971 through 1979 have mechanical advance stops in them. The upper points cam assembly rotates only so far before hitting a stop. Whether they are DVDA or SVDA, they can only advance what they were designed to do. These stops don't wear either. Most DVDA's are set to advance to 21*-23* mechanically which is the same with the SVDA's. I see this all the time on my Sun Distributor machine. I have seen some Bosch DVDA's that had been taken apart and had the stops modified. One advanced mechanically 31*. I could clearly see where they grinded the cut out larger before it hit a stop.Bottom line, they simply can't mechanically over advance. The 034 distributor had a 579 vacuum canister on it. Most of them vacuum advance the timing 10-13 on the distributor machine*.
Also, I've restored several Mexican Bosch 034's. They are exactly identical to their German versions. The internal parts interchange between the two. The quality of the Mexican 034 is on the same level as the original German. They are excellent distributors.
So, I'm calling BS on these "experts" assessment of over advancing. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
So, I'm calling BS on these "experts" assessment of over advancing. |
Bill, I agree. I bet these "so called experts" didn't use a distributor tester to validate their conclusion. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7632
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Glenn wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
So, I'm calling BS on these "experts" assessment of over advancing. |
Bill, I agree. I bet these "so called experts" didn't use a distributor tester to validate their conclusion. |
This ^^^^. My buddies at age 22 in 1986 working on ACVWs didn’t know the specific vacuum or spring tension details. But did know for $20 you could get a pretty good working car. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26788 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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What happens if you connect it to a 32pict? |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Thanks, Bill. You gave good information that I can use the next time I talk to my Ghia friend.
P.s. This is the same guy that I tried to convince to buy one of your restored 034’s awhile back. Maybe now that I’m armed with some figures, he’ll begin listening to reason.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Dwayne1m wrote: |
Someone school me on what an 034 is |
From the OldVolksHome page on distributors:
Quote: |
Beetle 1974 * 1600 Federal Manual Trans
Distributor: VW 043-905-205, Bosch 0231 170 034
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC @ 800-950rpm w/strobe and w/single vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv; Centrifugal: 7-12deg @ 1600rpm, 20-25deg @ 3800rpm |
I've highlighted the last 3 digits of the Bosch part#. This is where it gets the name "034".
Aka. "205" from the VW part#, but most of the SVDA and DVDA VW distributor part#s end with "205" but add a letter as a suffix. This could lead you to think ANY VW part that ends in "205x" is an SVDA. That would be wrong.
Since this distributor has both a vacuum advance and a mechanical advance it has a Single Vacuum + Dual Adavance = "SVDA".
Many/most aftermarket SVDA distributors are patterned after this model Bosch distributor.
Dwayne1m wrote: |
explain why a SVDA with a 34 PICT3 carb would be used on a 74SB, and a DVDA with a 34 PICT3 would also be used on a 74SB. What determines whether you use a SVDA or a DVDA? |
If you are trying to determine which distributor works with which 34Pict carb you need to refer to the following table from glutamodo:
For an original Solex carb the base flange# stamped into the carb can be linked to the distributor it was matched to from the factory. These match ups are the best combos as DVDA carbs do not always play well with SVDA distributors. Here is a thread on how to mod a DVDA carb to work w/ an SVDA distributor:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365762 _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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The adventure continues:
My Ghia friend called again to ask if I’d come over and reinstall my restored German Bosch 034 in his car, to test it out again with his 34 pict 3 carburetor. I said okay, and when I got to his house, he had installed a 30 pict 3, 31 pict whatever (not an H 30/31)—I didn’t really pay attention to what it was, since it wasn’t a 34 pict 3, like I expected.
The German 009 was also still in the car. Hm? Why was I there? I told him there was no reason to install my 034 and conduct the test because he’d changed the carb from the 34 pict 3 to another type carburetor. He said that was okay, because he had another test in mind.
He wanted to advance his 009 to 32 degrees at 3000 rpm’s, and see if the car ran better. Apparently, it was only advanced to 28 degrees by one of his 009 adherent friends. All right. 4 degrees can make a difference, right?
Actually, it did. He advanced the distributor to 32 full advance and tightened the distributor clamp nut. We got in the Ghia, and the motor ran fine. No dead spot, nice acceleration.
There you go.
Now for a little FYI that’s off topic; although, if you’re having fuel gauge issues, it may be worth the diversion.
Recently, my gas gauge was only showing a little over half full with a full tank. A few years ago (and not with that many miles on the car since), I had replaced the gauge, the vibrator, as well as a new, $115.00 VDO sender. However, in the last few months, my gauge has steadily shown less than full, going to 3/4 when full, then, eventually, to a little past 1/2 when full.
Since I had someone to help, I pulled the the yellow power wire off my sender, attached a jumper wire with alligator clips to the sender wire, handed the opposite end of the jumper to my friend, and told him to touch a nearby ground screw when I gave him the signal.
I went around and started the car, gave the signal, and he grounded the sender wire. To my dismay, the gauge went almost all the way over to full. Great, I said. This test showed that the gauge was good. This also meant that the expensive sender with very few miles on it was the culprit.
I turned off my engine, reattached the yellow power sender wire to the sender, restarted the car and left for home. A city block later, I looked down and noticed my gas gauge move over to almost full (I had filled the tank a few days before and put some miles on the car since, so almost full meant accurate). When I got home, I turned off the engine, let it sit until the gauge returned to empty, then restarted the engine. The fuel gauge moved to almost full again.
Hooray! The sender was sunndenly accurate again. The only thing I could figure was that the connection at the sender was a bit corroded, and removing and reinstalling the spade connection had scraped up the connection surfaces enough to allow the proper amount of voltage.
This little miracle made my day—especially since it’s damn near impossible to find another N.O.S. VDO sender; not to mention that with a Super, you have to move the fuel tank back a few inches. Not a fun way to spend my time, since I’ve already do this a few times in the past, and I hate to redo what I’ve done.
I’m sure, my Ghia friend was just as happy with his achievement.
It’s nice when shit works out!
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Deebs Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2018 Posts: 248 Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Since I had someone to help, I pulled the the yellow power wire off my sender, attached a jumper wire with alligator clips to the sender wire, handed the opposite end of the jumper to my friend, and told him to touch a nearby ground screw when I gave him the signal.
I went around and started the car, gave the signal, and he grounded the sender wire. To my dismay, the gauge went almost all the way over to full. Great, I said. This test showed that the gauge was good. This also meant that the expensive sender with very few miles on it was the culprit.
I turned off my engine, reattached the yellow power sender wire to the sender, restarted the car and left for home. A city block later, I looked down and noticed my gas gauge move over to almost full (I had filled the tank a few days before and put some miles on the car since, so almost full meant accurate). When I got home, I turned off the engine, let it sit until the gauge returned to empty, then restarted the engine. The fuel gauge moved to almost full again.
Hooray! The sender was sunndenly accurate again. The only thing I could figure was that the connection at the sender was a bit corroded, and removing and reinstalling the spade connection had scraped up the connection surfaces enough to allow the proper amount of voltage.
This little miracle made my day—especially since it’s damn near impossible to find another N.O.S. VDO sender; not to mention that with a Super, you have to move the fuel tank back a few inches. Not a fun way to spend my time, since I’ve already do this a few times in the past, and I hate to redo what I’ve done.
I’m sure, my Ghia friend was just as happy with his achievement.
It’s nice when shit works out!
Tim |
This is good news! My '71 shows 3/4 with a full tank. The PO painted the entire trunk a flat black. While it does make the trunk appear cleaner, he painted EVERYTHING (Wire connectors, brake fluid reservoir, wires etc...). I will pull my sender wires off today, give them a good clean and try your method
That being said, have any of you distributor experts ever come across a Kuhltek SVDA? https://www.amazon.com/Kuhltek-Motorwerks-02311700...dpSrc=srch
I am assuming it is made in China. The description claims a 034 advance curve. Just curious of the reputation based on its cost. Anything has to be an improvement over the $30 009 I have right now. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Deebs wrote: |
I am assuming it is made in China. The description claims a 034 advance curve. Just curious of the reputation based on its cost. Anything has to be an improvement over the $30 009 I have right now. |
It's a 009 with a vacuum canister. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Deebs Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2018 Posts: 248 Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Glenn wrote: |
It's a 009 with a vacuum canister. |
That is a bummer. Saved me $60 though, thanks! |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Depending on the model year some senders have only a single wire that runs between the sender and to the fuel gauge. These can benefit from a dedicated ground wire.
Just use one of the sender mounting screw and run a brown ground wire to a good ground point at the dash. The normal ground for these types of senders is thru the tank body and the tank hold down bolts. Over time this path can become compromised with dirt/rust/paint. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Deebs wrote: |
That being said, have any of you distributor experts ever come across a Kuhltek SVDA? https://www.amazon.com/Kuhltek-Motorwerks-02311700...dpSrc=srch
I am assuming it is made in China. The description claims a 034 advance curve. Just curious of the reputation based on its cost. Anything has to be an improvement over the $30 009 I have right now. |
This is the same company pimping:
Vintage Style Cast Iron 010 Distributor
"This distributor is curved like the popular 009 distributor"
Has anyone had one of these in their hands? The body looks to be aluminum and not cast iron. Looks like they just painted it black and glued on a fake name plate that looks like the original.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2131649
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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I had one of those in my hands at a swap meet. It was cast iron or something not AL. But it was still cheap feeling. Everything just seemed a bit off. I was not impressed. I put it back down quickly.
When you pick up a cast OG distributor, you can really tell how much better quality they are. I wouldn't mess with that 009 010 wantabe. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Bosch 034 Controversy. |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
I had one of those in my hands at a swap meet. It was cast iron or something not AL |
Odd because it has all the casting marks of the 009. They must of used the same molds. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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