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mr sarcastic
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: NH
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 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: automatic transmission advice |
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I have an 89 with a subaru ej22 swap. I did the swap a year ago, and while I was in there, I drained the atf and put in some fresh stuff. True mileage on the tranny is unknown. I bought it 3 years ago and the odometer was broken at 134k, records went back for a few or more years with recordings of the same mileage. So, 160+ is my guess. Prior to me changing the fluid, I had 1 minor issue. Sometimes after a cold start, it wouldn't move in gear. Give it a minute or less and it would engage. I didn't happen every time, and it never lasted more than a minute.
Now, a year later, that issue hasn't changed. But now, when cold, it hangs between shifts. First to second shift will take a while to happen. Revs can go up if I mash the gas, but I don't do that because i'm trying to baby it. Fluid level is where it should be, fluid is pretty black already.
My question is, should I drop the pan and change the filter/fluid? I didn't change the filter last time. I've read that people have issues after they change the fluid on a high mileage tranny. Should I double down or limp it till it explodes? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| If the filter is getting clogged your pressures might be getting low. The automatic in my '91 died because the filter cracked from age and fatigue and let all the junk it was holding get into the valve body, cylinders and such. Maybe if I had changed the fluid more often this might not have happened. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dabaron
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2561
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| mr sarcastic wrote: |
| I've read that people have issues after they change the fluid on a high mileage tranny. Should I double down or limp it till it explodes? |
why would changing the ATF detonate the tranny?
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| dabaron wrote: |
| mr sarcastic wrote: |
| I've read that people have issues after they change the fluid on a high mileage tranny. Should I double down or limp it till it explodes? |
why would changing the ATF detonate the tranny? |
Don't know why but I would say that MAYBE it does. I have kind of believed thought that people keep driving with ancient ATF until something begins to not work all that perfect and they change the oil hoping that will fix the problem, but when it doesn't work they blame the new oil.
A lot of tranny fluid does come with additives that are supposed to soften the seals. Is that a come on or do they work? |
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dabaron
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2561
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
A lot of tranny fluid does come with additives that are supposed to soften the seals. Is that a come on or do they work? |
the only thing i can see happening from changing the fluid is putting the wrong fluid in or when draining, some thing that was floating around in some dark corner was let loose to wreak havoc.
"old and hard seals" is the name of my punk rock polka band
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3582
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| dabaron wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
A lot of tranny fluid does come with additives that are supposed to soften the seals. Is that a come on or do they work? |
the only thing i can see happening from changing the fluid is putting the wrong fluid in or when draining, some thing that was floating around in some dark corner was let loose to wreak havoc.
"old and hard seals" is the name of my punk rock polka band |
Oh, it's REAL thing, I've witnessed it happening to others, and experienced it first hand as well. Fresh ATF has a great cleaning ability, and the fresh fluid can move or loosen up the 'crud' that was just allowing your trans to work.
Yes, any trans that this happens to was generally on its last legs, but the fresh fluid can push it over the edge and you can't drive it off the service rack or out of your garage when the worst happens from a fluid change.
I've seen clutch packs lose more fibers just from the fresh fluid as well, you drain fluid and replace the filter, then add the same type, new fluid back in, Then the fluid ends up causing the discs to dump some of their fibers into the brand new filter, clogging it up while you have a barely functioning trans to boot....... 
Still remember dropping the trans pan on a BMW 745i grey market 7 series, and remove the gunked up trans filter, sprayed it with brake clean to try and unclog all the clutch fibers that weren't on the old filter I'd just replaced minutes before... 
Trans came back to life with the restriction now gone, but only last another month before needing replacement.
Once you've been burned by this first hand, you get really gunshy of servicing a high mileage trans that has fairly burned fluid in it... 
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dabaron
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2561
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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thank you Dave for the Halloween nightmare story.
my ATF is nice and clean and pure as the driven snow. I now have "THE FEAR" over yet another aspect of my Vanagon.
why the hell did i buy a Vanagon, less stress is what i need, not more.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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if this, then yes, step away from the van, leave it on the curb
it'll self immolate or get struck by a drunk or stolen by a tweaker in 17minutes.
| dabaron wrote: |
| why the hell did i buy a Vanagon, less stress is what i need, not more. |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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dabaron
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2561
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
if this, then yes, step away from the van, leave it on the curb it'll self immolate or get struck by a drunk or stolen by a tweaker in 17minutes.
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i half joke. i asked at Buses by the Depot if the nervous feeling i had while driving that something was about to break ever went away... not only was i told no, i was told it gets worse the further from home you go.
the cooler will always have beer so i can at least pop the awning and sit in my easy chair relaxing while awaiting the AAA tow home.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| dabaron wrote: |
i half joke. i asked at Buses by the Depot if the nervous feeling i had while driving that something was about to break ever went away... not only was i told no, i was told it gets worse the further from home you go.
the cooler will always have beer so i can at least pop the awning and sit in my easy chair relaxing while awaiting the AAA tow home. |
You can't be consumed by worry, but you prepare for the unexpected.
I tend to want to be self sufficient and not be dependant upon others if I have a mechanical failure enroute.
Happily, I haven't any problems of a major sort, just easily fixed things, a coolant leak, belts jumped off, bolts MIA that hold the brake caliper on, etc.
That being said, I carried parts, supplies and tools that would hopefully get me on my way if non catastrophic problems arose.
I also carried in a dry bag in the roof carrier a tow bar, ready to use with a rented or purchased truck that would get my dead carcass home to be fixed properly.
Relax! Enjoy the journey!
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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mr sarcastic
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: NH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| I think I'm going to double down and change the fluid again, new filter. If I end up needing a rebuild, so be it. Better than a long drawn out death. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| mr sarcastic wrote: |
| I think I'm going to double down and change the fluid again, new filter. If I end up needing a rebuild, so be it. Better than a long drawn out death. |
I believe almost completely that doing so would be a waste of both time and money.
My shift issue was simply old hard dried seals.
My leak issue was old hard dried Orings.
Once I replaced those items my shift problems vanished.
But, even all of that new oil, with all of its miracle cleaning and healing properties.......... it did zero/zip/nada/nothing for softening the seals to any major degree.
Did I change the oil a lot?
You bet I did!
Every trip used about a quart a day. 400-600 miles.
I put on about 30,000 miles with the leak, but it was at times less than others.
Let's be generous...... 900 miles per quart.
That 33 quarts of oil added daily in addition to the quarts I used to refill when I first changed the filter, when I dropped the pan to repair the separator plate on the valve body, when I dropped the pan to install the new valve body, etc.
40-50 quarts of oil, refreshed with a quart everyday while driving. Various brands...... no shifting improvement.
Only the warmth of operation softened things enough to make it work. When in cold temperatures, such as Great Fallls Montana last Fall at -9° F ? ..... when you stopped for gas or food, even for ten minutes...... that oil cooled off!
IMHO....... You need new seals and Orings. That's the only thing that will fix your shifting. Once you open it, you may need other hard parts but you wont know until it is apart.
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1491
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: automatic transmission advice |
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| Put Type F fluid in it as someone used to say. I put a liter of Trick Shift (fancy Type F) in mine a few years ago and it's been shifting well ever since. |
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