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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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aeromech wrote: |
It's not hard to ride in the back seat and watch a gauge. Just about anyone could do it, even me. |
right, now I get you.
I don't live near Eric. Could have the wife take a look while driving I guess.
I will have to go slow with the trouble shooting. Only one change at a time to really isolate the problem.
I will do a run with the pressure gauge near the window
if that doesn't reveal the issue i will take a look at the distributor mechanical bits.
Drive again if no change I will switch to points.
And id that doesn't do it I will swap the AFM.
and so on.... I will keep you posted
oh, I will for sure look at the TSII sensor since I have heard stories that it might be the culprit. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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And remove the gas cap🤠 _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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DC9/MD80
BAe146
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VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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Hey Tram,
I hope you took my slight onset of sarcasm with a pinch of humor. No malicious intend on my end. I was just trying to pull you leg.
Peace |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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aeromech wrote: |
And remove the gas cap🤠 |
Roger, wilco. |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22711 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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heiko910 wrote: |
Hey Tram,
I hope you took my slight onset of sarcasm with a pinch of humor. No malicious intend on my end. I was just trying to pull you leg.
Peace |
I don't take my interwebs seriously.
But see, it isn't that I mind it's not stock so much as I cudgeled my weary brain about on your problem with the incorrect info. You owe me many beers now Grasshopper. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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musktchup Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2004 Posts: 207 Location: Wilm. NC
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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Ive been reading your thread and does the motor hiccup while you rev it to 3,000+ rpm while sitting in the driveway? If not I agree with your assessment of a fuel line issue, possibly coming from the tank to the fuel filter. You could take an air hose and blow back on it from the upstream filter connection. Then go for a test drive to assess.
If it hiccups while sitting in the driveway revving to 3,000+ rpm I would lean toward something else ignition related as the fuel demand is much less in this state of running.
my .02
Cheers |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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musktchup wrote: |
Ive been reading your thread and does the motor hiccup while you rev it to 3,000+ rpm while sitting in the driveway? If not I agree with your assessment of a fuel line issue, possibly coming from the tank to the fuel filter. You could take an air hose and blow back on it from the upstream filter connection. Then go for a test drive to assess.
If it hiccups while sitting in the driveway revving to 3,000+ rpm I would lean toward something else ignition related as the fuel demand is much less in this state of running.
my .02
Cheers |
Thanks for your input. I hope you are right.
Just did some test driving.
Test #1 driving without fuel cap to check for vent issues - no change, still hiccup
Test #2 disconnected the declaration valve - no change, still hiccup.
Going back home now. Tank is almost empty. I guess I will drain it and take a look at the inside of my tank. I do have a access opening to the tank sending unit and i will see if there is anything unusual in the tank. I will also blow up the fuel line connection. |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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musktchup wrote: |
Ive been reading your thread and does the motor hiccup while you rev it to 3,000+ rpm while sitting in the driveway? If not I agree with your assessment of a fuel line issue, possibly coming from the tank to the fuel filter. You could take an air hose and blow back on it from the upstream filter connection. Then go for a test drive to assess.
If it hiccups while sitting in the driveway revving to 3,000+ rpm I would lean toward something else ignition related as the fuel demand is much less in this state of running.
my .02
Cheers |
I doesn't do it in the driveway. It only has the hiccups under load. |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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https://youtu.be/IjPwkFapKaw
Check this out.
I changed to the oem coil and a stock rotor. Set the mixture again and drove it again. No change. I drained the tank, blew through the line into the tank. No change.
Vacuum is good, 17 inch Hg right at the vacuum advance hook up. Timing is set and steady at rpm. 28° with mechanical advance and 39° with vacuum advance.
Tomorrow I will try points.
Anyone any other ideas? |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2200 Location: seattle
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:08 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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great vid , hope the points & condenser will solve this for you.
Best advice about these buses is found at gowest.com. Titled:
Running Issues: Which Injection or Ignition Part On My Vanagon
Is Causing the Problem? Excellent write up by Lucas over there. |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:55 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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Under load would suggest to me that it's starving for fuel (lean condition). You need to get your hands on a wideband and install a bung and go for a drive.
What fuel regulator you using? _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
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mikewire Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010 Posts: 805 Location: San Antonio, TX
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:19 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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Watched your video, nice! You have a good set of diag tools to work with. I think we can rule out your ignition setup.
I may be wrong on this, but your fuel pressure you stated being variable between 29-36psi. When I've tested mine, it was a steady 38psi, so your readings seem low to me. However, I didn't test mine while driving or under load.
That may indicate a FPR, (maybe a vac leak in the line, or failing unit), or a blockage or restriction somewhere. There's the fuel tank, sock filter in the outlet, and since you changed the pump and filter, you may also consider changing the main fuel lines up to the drivers injector rail - it's cheap, will rule out any issues there, and should be done on the regular anyway.
OH one other thing I thought about is your S boot - I had to replace mine recently because it was cracked all over and was giving me similar issues. _________________ -Mike
@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro
1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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udidwht wrote: |
Under load would suggest to me that it's starving for fuel (lean condition). You need to get your hands on a wideband and install a bung and go for a drive.
What fuel regulator you using? |
I am using the stock regulator. I will drive with a fuel pressure gauge to see if there is any trop in pressure when it starts having the hiccups.
The wideband has been on the shopping list for a long time |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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mikewire wrote: |
Watched your video, nice! You have a good set of diag tools to work with. I think we can rule out your ignition setup.
I may be wrong on this, but your fuel pressure you stated being variable between 29-36psi. When I've tested mine, it was a steady 38psi, so your readings seem low to me. However, I didn't test mine while driving or under load.
That may indicate a FPR, (maybe a vac leak in the line, or failing unit), or a blockage or restriction somewhere. There's the fuel tank, sock filter in the outlet, and since you changed the pump and filter, you may also consider changing the main fuel lines up to the drivers injector rail - it's cheap, will rule out any issues there, and should be done on the regular anyway.
OH one other thing I thought about is your S boot - I had to replace mine recently because it was cracked all over and was giving me similar issues. |
Thanks for the response.
Fuel pressure is to spec 29 psi with regulator connected to vacuum, it goes up to 36psi when the vacuum is disconnected. I only tested that in the driveway. I will hook up a long line, route it up the left side air vent and tape it to the window. My wife then read the pressure while driving.
Fuel tank can be ruled out too.
I drained the tank, took the tank sending unit out and blew through the lines into the tank. That looks all great.
Main fuel line is new.
I have a smoke generator, I will test for vacuum leaks. I probably hook it up right to the s-boot and check everything that way. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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heiko910 wrote: |
mikewire wrote: |
Watched your video, nice! You have a good set of diag tools to work with. I think we can rule out your ignition setup.
I may be wrong on this, but your fuel pressure you stated being variable between 29-36psi. When I've tested mine, it was a steady 38psi, so your readings seem low to me. However, I didn't test mine while driving or under load.
That may indicate a FPR, (maybe a vac leak in the line, or failing unit), or a blockage or restriction somewhere. There's the fuel tank, sock filter in the outlet, and since you changed the pump and filter, you may also consider changing the main fuel lines up to the drivers injector rail - it's cheap, will rule out any issues there, and should be done on the regular anyway.
OH one other thing I thought about is your S boot - I had to replace mine recently because it was cracked all over and was giving me similar issues. |
Thanks for the response.
Fuel pressure is to spec 29 psi with regulator connected to vacuum, it goes up to 36psi when the vacuum is disconnected. I only tested that in the driveway. I will hook up a long line, route it up the left side air vent and tape it to the window. My wife then read the pressure while driving.
Fuel tank can be ruled out too.
I drained the tank, took the tank sending unit out and blew through the lines into the tank. That looks all great.
Main fuel line is new.
I have a smoke generator, I will test for vacuum leaks. I probably hook it up right to the s-boot and check everything that way. |
that is an excellent place to go next. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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one other item. I would guess this is an FI tank - meaning two nipples on it. Once in a great while someone shows up with a single outlet tank in a FI bay, and a tee to recirculate the fuel. When that happens we have seen situations where the fuel aerates and causes weird issues. On a FI Bay, the fuel tank also stores the heat that is generated when the fuel goes thru the fuel pump and engine bay. That way the fuel is always cool when it enters the engine bay. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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SGKent wrote: |
one other item. I would guess this is an FI tank - meaning two nipples on it. Once in a great while someone shows up with a single outlet tank in a FI bay, and a tee to recirculate the fuel. When that happens we have seen situations where the fuel aerates and causes weird issues. On a FI Bay, the fuel tank also stores the heat that is generated when the fuel goes thru the fuel pump and engine bay. That way the fuel is always cool when it enters the engine bay. |
Thanks for your input.
I have a stock FI tank with the two nipples at the bottom.
The fuel gets pretty warm when driving freeway though |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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Today I check the bus for vacuum leaks with my home made smoke generator.
I made a video to show what I did and what I found.
I am going for a test drive to confirm my finding/ potential fix.. Enjoy the video.
https://youtu.be/AhKo7kPm3YA |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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throttle shaft leakage is hard to get rid of because the gasket is no longer made although there are substitutes. A member here Phil (whip618) does rebuild them like new. That said I don't think that leak is enough to cause a the stumble. Next I would try it with points and a regular condenser to see if that changes anything. If not next I would try another AFM and see if the spots it stumbles at change.
Good Luck
SK _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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heiko910 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2013 Posts: 221 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: 77 Bay window 2.0FI hiccups between 3000 - 3800rpm |
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SGKent wrote: |
throttle shaft leakage is hard to get rid of because the gasket is no longer made although there are substitutes. A member here Phil (whip618) does rebuild them like new. That said I don't think that leak is enough to cause a the stumble. Next I would try it with points and a regular condenser to see if that changes anything. If not next I would try another AFM and see if the spots it stumbles at change.
Good Luck
SK |
solved!!!
I found the smoking gun.
The TSII temp sensor 2 was loose. It is thermister. The resistance of this thermister changes with temperate, in this case the cylinder head temp of cylinder 3.
How the electrical circuit is closed is by grounding it to the cylinder head. If it is loose it doesn't have a proper ground and may cause false readings for the ECU. I tightened it up, took it for a test drive and the hiccups are gone.
Solved!
Thanks Everyone for your help and support.
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