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HotStreetVw
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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Dave, that’s 1500lbs w/o driver right?
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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Sounds like a very personal question  |
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HotStreetVw
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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And what if I asked if he has a preference for short rods or long rods?
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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67rustavenger 
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| HotStreetVw wrote: |
| And what if I asked if he has a preference for short rods or long rods? |
Now that really, Sounds personal! 
If i remember correctly. Dave has stated that he's kinda portly. Just sayin. 
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
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HotStreetVw
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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Dave don’t take it personal it will ruin my hopes for political office.
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106877
| Mark Herbert wrote: |
| My 1400lb 65 Bug (with driver) went 11.03 at almost 122mph before Carlsbad got closed down and I drove around the streets of OC destroying anything in its path. |
There’s been a few developments in components in the last 13 years as well. |
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| clonebug wrote: |
A 2000 lb bug would need 182 whp to keep up.
There aren't many if any NA T1 strokers that will put out that much power. |
It's not anywhere near as hard as you think to build a 220 HP N/A engine using all off the shelf store bough parts. You can very easily gut a street legal Bug down to 1500 Lbs. Add a close ratio gearbox and your whipping their ass. What it really takes is money and that is what a lot of people don't have. |
Where are these easily built 220 Whp N/A engines????
Only one N/A engine in the Builds/Combo thread has a dyno sheet of over 200 whp and that is Neil68. He says 204 whp and 175 lb. ft. torque.
Nothing else comes close unless you spend more than what you can buy a Subaru STI for.
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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HotStreetVw
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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Stop confusing wheel HP and flywheel HP, you know the difference right?
Easily is a relative term. Off the shelf parts 100% easy, yes. Pickup the phone, jump on the www, order parts. However, building engines takes patience.
My 2275 would have made 220-230hp at SL (based on ET/MPH) and my current engine made 242whp (with more to come!) but that might fall into the second category, although I'm not sure what I'd do with a STI. And that engine is most certainly not easy to build.
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| 2332 or 2387 buit rghtan trans t handle it then car to handle them. mght an to just buy a new mustang. |
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| HotStreetVw wrote: |
Stop confusing wheel HP and flywheel HP, you know the difference right?
Easily is a relative term. Off the shelf parts 100% easy, yes. Pickup the phone, jump on the www, order parts. However, building engines takes patience.
My 2275 would have made 220-230hp at SL (based on ET/MPH) and my current engine made 242whp (with more to come!) but that might fall into the second category, although I'm not sure what I'd do with a STI. And that engine is most certainly not easy to build. |
What good does crank hp tell you??? Cuz it makes it sound more powerful???
Pull the belt and don't tell anyone you are dynoing it without a cooling fan or an alternator turning............ 
The power to the wheels is what you measure going down the track so why convert back to crank hp???
Can't hardly race a subie at the stoplight when the engine is on the dyno stand can you.......
There might be 1% here on this forum that could build any engine at that level let alone pay for it.
Go through the build/combo thread....one engine over 200 whp......lots of 180-190 hp "I'm Guessing" engines but probably wouldn't top 160 crank or whp.
Post the dyno sheets......wheel or crank......I don't care. If it's not in the car it's driven with.... it don't mean diddly....... 
Post the fuel you are using too.
Might as well post compression ratio also to see if it is really a street car or a trailered race car. 
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3466
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| clonebug wrote: |
A 2000 lb bug would need 182 whp to keep up.
There aren't many if any NA T1 strokers that will put out that much power. |
It's not anywhere near as hard as you think to build a 220 HP N/A engine using all off the shelf store bough parts. You can very easily gut a street legal Bug down to 1500 Lbs. Add a close ratio gearbox and your whipping their ass. What it really takes is money and that is what a lot of people don't have. |
Yup. Not just money is needed though. Some lack talent to build a naturally aspirated aircooled engine that really moves.
I have beat turbo WRXs in all motor no tech aircooled VW. The feeling is worth it  |
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HotStreetVw
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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Flywheel HP is just another yard stick. Most engine builders build engines, therefore they dyno them on an engine dyno.
Here’s mine. On the rollers. And your right, no fan belt. Have you seen what happens when a fan explodes?
So guessing aside, this engine made 242whp with some funky stuff going on in the fuel curve. We couldn’t provide enough fuel up top.
I don’t need to post the dyno sheet, the car runs. And has run a 6.89@100mph in the 1/8 (on the limiter in 3rd). That would be a 10.7-10.8 pass?!?. It has 12.5:1 and runs in vp110. It was built around E85, but I didn’t want to run E85 through the IDAs and have planned on injection which it is currently undergoing.
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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this is a dyno sheet for my 2.6 NA Ghia with 48DRLA's at the wheels with a tight fan belt on a standard type 1 pulley ratio on pump unleaded, it is a true daily driver and can sit in stop start traffic on +30C days without melting the heads or oil temp concerns and also sit on 4000rpm at freeway speeds for hours. It is a work in progress with a custom shroud and conservative self ported heads and cheap scat cam. I have a 091 box with a Peloquin diff.
As can be seen by the AFR there is more HP to be found also the DRLA's are most likely too small for a 2.6 spinning to 7000rpm.
I've only had it on the 1/8 for one meet , best was 8.80 at 83mph in full street trim.
A good friend also has a similar engine/trans combo in a bay panel . So those high NA engines are out there. On a side note both these engines have been no more expensive to build then any other quality engine is . |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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This will do it
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Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Casting Timmy
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 1221
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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Move 2-4 gears down, the expensive one is 2nd gear as you have to do a mainshaft with first and then get first anyways.
I'm hoping for a 160HP and don't think I can beat tons of cars, but hope I can at least look better coming off the line with the wheels up.
If budget is a concern I would go with a 3.78/2.06/1.32/.93 as those are the common factory ratios. 4th will be fine tooth, but it will be a cruise gear anyways.
The car will be a system from end to end, it all needs to match to get the best performance. I'm gutting my car and plan for plastic windows in the rear to help drop weight even after ripping out everything else I can. Short tires also reduce the overall gearing just like the ring and pinion. |
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| HotStreetVw wrote: |
Flywheel HP is just another yard stick. Most engine builders build engines, therefore they dyno them on an engine dyno.
Here’s mine. On the rollers. And your right, no fan belt. Have you seen what happens when a fan explodes?
So guessing aside, this engine made 242whp with some funky stuff going on in the fuel curve. We couldn’t provide enough fuel up top.
I don’t need to post the dyno sheet, the car runs. And has run a 6.89@100mph in the 1/8 (on the limiter in 3rd). That would be a 10.7-10.8 pass?!?. It has 12.5:1 and runs in vp110. It was built around E85, but I didn’t want to run E85 through the IDAs and have planned on injection which it is currently undergoing. |
So you are saying your car is not a street car right????
Stoplights don't wait while you pull the fan belt.........
Which gas station sells that VP110 fuel out of a pump?
I could see E85 but even that is not available in all areas......not where I live at least.
I guess if you get to use E85 then so does the Subaru.....not all subies are stock either.
You might want to pick on the WRX's and the Legacy's....... 
A stripped down, gutted bug is not what I consider an everyday driver like the Subaru that has full interior and air conditioning.
_________________
| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| clonebug wrote: |
A chipped Subaru STI makes about 300 whp.
A 2000 lb bug would need 182 whp to keep up.
There aren't many if any NA T1 strokers that will put out that much power.
If you turbo it you can make enough power. |
This is the bottom line...., HP to weight.
Not sure why you’re using 2000lbs. as a reference for a Beetle, but that’s a TANK. The 74 Super in my avatar is 2020, and that’s with a 4x8 sheet of 18 gauge, and 40lbs. of .023 wire. Beetles barely tipped the scales over 1800lbs. till all the safety shit of the shock bumpers, and stuff in the mid 70’s was added. Marks car from my example weighed 1400lbs. with him in it, and made 210 at the flywheel. Since you’re so hung up on wheel HP, call it 180 at the wheels. If that’s not good enough, calculate 1400lbs., 11.03@121, and see what wheel hp you get. Also not sure in what way you’re calculating, but what’s the Subaru have to have to keep up with Marks SSB at 1400lbs with 180? What’s to say the Subaru doesn’t have a bunch of stereo shit, and air tanks for a bag system adding 400lbs.? Sure, 1400lbs. is stripped down, but a friend got his all steel, stock bumper’d, 6 point cage’d 66 down to 1750 with him in it without any drastic measures. You can play Devil’s advocate for either car all day long if you really want to.
| clonebug wrote: |
| A stripped down, gutted bug is not what I consider an everyday driver like the Subaru that has full interior and air conditioning. |
When did this become a discussion of street practicality, and creature comforts? We are compairing a 45+ year old compact car that had it’s base design created in the 30’s to a modern car that was most likely designed after 2012, are we not? That’s like comparing a 1965 Mustang to a 2018 Mustang.... |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7221
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| Volkie1 wrote: |
| What is the best build recipe for a stop light stunner to leave the local Subaru drivers in the dust. Don't say Subaru it has to be air cooled |
Give Ian at WPS a bell. He´s right in your back garden, and that´s exactly his game.
T |
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wheel607
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1847
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| Volkie1 wrote: |
| What is the best build recipe for a stop light stunner to leave the local Subaru drivers in the dust. Don't say Subaru it has to be air cooled |
$30,000 USD for a "stop light stunner" |
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wheel607
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1847
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Recipe for a stop light stunner |
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| Volkie1 wrote: |
| What is the best build recipe for a stop light stunner to leave the local Subaru drivers in the dust. Don't say Subaru it has to be air cooled |
$30,000 USD for a "stop light stunner" |
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