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spacebiscuit Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2016 Posts: 368 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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I have been wiring my tailgate/brake lights today. When the headlights are switched off and I apply the the brakes the tailgate lights illuminate as expected. But if i turn the headlights on the tailgate lights are bright - as if the brakes have been applied. When i do apply the brakes the tailgate lights do not get any brighter.
The tailgate bulb has two terminals. I have a negative/earth wired to one and i have piggybacked the tailgate onto the brakelight terminal which are both connected to the other terminal. This is likely the issue but I can't see any other way.
Anyone got any ideas? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Is "tailgate" an autocorrect Iphoneism?, or a UK term for a car part we call something else in North America?, pickup trucks have tailgates on the rear end of the bed, some call the rear upper hatch a tailgate (the one with a window in it) as well here.
It might be picture time, sounds like you have some wires stirred up or incorrectly earthed. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16883 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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first off.....what year bus?
second (which really doesn't matter) is it usa spec or euro spec?
3rd, even euro spec lights have a terminal riveted to the body of the tail light housing if we are talking early bay (early early has a sharp spike that dug into the body as ground...or earth as you may call it)
sounds to me that you grounded the parking light terminal, and have (by some crazy chance) both of the brighter filaments wired to the brake lights.
you need 3 wires on an early bay tail light, UNLESS it's euro spec.
USA= brake(doubles as turn signal) parking and ground
EURO= brake, parking, turn and ground
so, as BD mentions, we need pix to help _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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spacebiscuit Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2016 Posts: 368 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:07 am Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Apologies for the confusion, I thought I was using terminology in keeping with the majority here on the Samba.
The bus us a 1972 but it was imported form the States to the UK. This is the diagram I am using:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bus_8_71.jpg
Looks like it is referred to as a 'tail' light. My units have a 4 connections:
1. One up top fo rhte turn signal/indicator
2/3. Two on the lower/bigger light
4. Another in the middle of the hosing that doesn't make contact with the prongs and bulbs. |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Try this thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...0f4324d892 _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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spacebiscuit Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2016 Posts: 368 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Ok so looking at the thread above my tail light is the same as this but without the back-up lights:
So it looks as if the tail light bulb has the brake lights wired to one of the terminals and the main lights to the other terminal. I thought I had tried this setup and I seem to recall a fuse blowing when I tried the brakes.
What is the 3rd blake wire though?
Seems I should try again, likely something else caused the fuse to blow. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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spacebiscuit wrote: |
What is the 3rd blake wire though?. |
If you mean the one labelled "solid black (small connector)" it leads to the side marker light. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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spacebiscuit Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2016 Posts: 368 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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So does the black wire "solid black (small connector) go to the backup light "solid black (big connector)"? |
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samwise Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2010 Posts: 611 Location: North Salt Lake, Utah
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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spacebiscuit wrote: |
So does the black wire "solid black (small connector) go to the backup light "solid black (big connector)"? |
No, the side marker connector goes to the connector on the brake/taillight. On original light units, there was one large male terminal (red/black wire) and a similarly-sized "connector" that was actually two narrow male terminals. On replacement units, there are just two large connectors. I think that they used to be called 5-amp and 15-amp spade terminals (digging way back in my memory now...) in the UK, before the description changed to mm. _________________ Ben
1979 7-passenger bus
Harvee the Wonder Bus' pics |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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No, it won't fit, "small connector" is those skinny spades like you find on the dash light sockets. I have no idea why the wire to the side marker is black, it should be grey/red or grey/black, or even just grey, some color similar to the tail light circuit that connects to the other tab on the same terminal. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Spacebicuit. I just loaded up a bunch of photos of my 72 bus tail light replacement in my gallery. The pictures are the original set up before replacement. I used the Arteb Brazilian VW replacement buckets. The Arteb buckets only have the two large terminals for the “Brake and tail light”. Since mine has the two small spades I just split the large terminal post enough to accept the two small spades. The Arteb buckets and lenses still look new 4 years later. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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spacebiscuit Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2016 Posts: 368 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Xevin wrote: |
Spacebicuit. I just loaded up a bunch of photos of my 72 bus tail light replacement in my gallery |
Ok so the tailight and the brake light go to one each of the bulb with two terminal connections.
Where does the backup/reversing light come from, is there a switch in the engine compartment or is it located up front by the brake switches? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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The tail/brake light is a single bulb with dual filaments, the brake filament is higher wattage then the tail, mix up the wires and you'll never see the brake light when the tail lights are on.
The backup lights are controlled by a switch on the nosecone of the transmission, a black wire runs from coil terminal #15 through an inline fuse holder laying to the left of the engine and then on up to the switch, then another black wire leads back to the lights. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Post up some pictures of the tail lights you have installed on your Bus. |
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beetleman217 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011 Posts: 515 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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I just installed a third brake light and have an electrical oddity. I connected its positive wire to the left brake light terminal with a piggy back connector. Its ground wire is simply screwed into the body. When I engage the brake pedal, the right side brake light and the 3rd brake light come on, but the left brake light (from which the 3rd feeds off of) tuns off! And even more odd, the left backup light comes on! What's going on?
The driving lights are on (excuse the missing left lens)
Brake pedal depressed- WTF?
_________________ If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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At least part of the problem is going to be a bad ground. Can't say about any wiring you added. |
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beetleman217 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011 Posts: 515 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Checked the ground, it is solid.
So I assumed the 3rd is "robbing" the left brake light of power, so today I tried something else. I connected the 3rd to BOTH brake lights by means of a cross connection between them, thinking now the right will share some of its power too.
The result was nearly the same - the left brake light (to which the 3rd is connected directly) still goes out, but this time BOTH back up lights came on dimly!
Can anyone suggest where is the right place from which to power the 3rd brake light? Obviously using the brake lights is a no no.
Thanks _________________ If all else fails, stop using all else
1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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That ground isn't as "solid" as you think, or the bulb shell isn't making good contact inside the socket, there's nothing wrong with tapping the brake light circuit, you disturbed something while you were F'ng around in there. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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Your problem screams a Bad Ground. I would remove the left tail light assembly and polish all the connections and bulb sockets to bare metal and treat them with dielectric grease to prevent further corrosion. I would also replace the ends on the ground wire or make a new ground wire to replace the existing one and make sure the ground connection is shiny metal as well. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34021 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tailgate and Brake light help |
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You have to understand that electricity seeks the ground with the least resistance. So while you may have continuity to ground, it doesn't tell you the resistance and current capacity.. So what can happen is the electricity seeks a better ground through the filaments of one of the other bulbs to IT'S ground, completing the circuit, and lighting another bulb in the process.
So as suggested, remove, clean, and tighten all grounds in the lamp assembly. Next make sure the positive terminals where the bulb connects aren't bent in a say that they short, providing yet another alternate ground path. |
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