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costonjs
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
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Location: lawrence, ks
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 Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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these photos are of an ancient dual port baby dell setup on my 73 super. the left hand side clears the body. the right hand side smacks endlessly. how to fix? my first thought is to simply bend the body. no. don't want to do that. second, how about a shorter air filter? the next shorter size is too short (checked CB and K&N). my next thought is to pull the manifold and have it machined a tiny bit so that the entire rh assembly tilts further inward. i could do this but do any of you have another idea that will be easier and/or cheaper?
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73 sport beetle blue 1745cc (going to sister)
74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
Posts: 2047
Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:55 am Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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find out why your engine/trans is crooked?
I'd wager that your frame horns are ever so slightly tweaked, most are..
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-pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
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Rome
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Posts: 9654
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:58 am Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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Easier/cheaper? Probably not- but here are some ideas. But the recommendation above to check the frame horns for being horizontal will probably be cheap, though you''ll likely need to remove the engine so that you can easily measure the levelness with a construction bubble level.
I also have a set of ancient 34 FRDs which I bought new in the late 1980's. Still have them, but only ever installed them on my Ghia which has no interference issues with the body edge like you are experiencing. You probably want to keep the ribbed aluminum air cleaner tops...
Cheap solution: replace the air cleaner tops with some thin stamped steel covers which you can find used. The thinner material should gain you maybe 2 millimeters clearance. Like these, though you'd need to drill new holes for the attachment wing nuts, polish or paint them. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2067253
Next cheap solution: Buy a pair of generic approx. 4" round chrome air filters that fit the carb neck. ~ $15 at Pep Boys, etc. Like these:
The original Dell' air cleaner aluminum base clamps onto the carb top using a cast-in clamp design. There's really no room to "machine" it offset. However, you could have a machine shop cut out the entire surrounding area, relocate it an inch rearwards, and weld the aluminum back in to offset the air cleaner an inch frontwards. This might be the most elegant solution but most expensive. |
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andk5591
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Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:49 am Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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Looks like a set of 2 barrels. If you do some digging and measuring, you can find shorter elements. I think a 6" round works for those and I have got something close in a 2" height on K&Ns site. Dont remember which ones though.
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costonjs
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Rome wrote: |
| You probably want to keep the ribbed aluminum air cleaner tops... |
i do as nephew spent good money on them. i'm running the full CB hex bar setup.
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73 sport beetle blue 1745cc (going to sister)
74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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costonjs
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Cheap solution: replace the air cleaner tops with some thin stamped steel covers which you can find used. The thinner material should gain you maybe 2 millimeters clearance. Like these, though you'd need to drill new holes for the attachment wing nuts, polish or paint them. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2067253 |
those are kind of pricey. the aluminum tops i have were $7 each with some crazy shipping cost from CB. i figure my cost to shave a bit of aluminum off the manifold will be about $30. i have some time off tomorrow. i'll have to drive over and find out.
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
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Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| costonjs wrote: |
| those are kind of pricey. the aluminum tops i have were $7 each with some crazy shipping cost from CB. |
how in the heck did you get that price?! or maybe we bought different parts.. I just bought their finned aluminum filter bases, and it was MUCH more than $7.... I want to say they were about $30 per side..
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-pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.) |
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costonjs
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| tattooed_pariah wrote: |
| how in the heck did you get that price?! or maybe we bought different parts.. |
my nephew just bought the tops. my original aluminum finned tops that came with the carb kit were drilled with too many holes so we just replaced them. i just checked again for them on CB's web site. they are listed now at 10.95 each. www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3303.htm
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74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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RailBoy
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Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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I just trimmed the lip back to the rubber that met the lid.... Gave me spacing.. RB
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Rome
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Posts: 9654
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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I can relate to your wanting to keep the ribbed filter top. On mine, I painted them with black wrinkle-finish, wiped off the dried paint with thinner/acetone, then filed the ribs' top surface with a fine file. Afterwards I polished the ribs with chrome polish. Looks great. I also painted the aluminum air filter bases wrinkle black to match.
Another idea to get you the clearance, working with what you have: You could cut, grind or file out a "D" shaped section where the filter top contacts the body edge. Probably don't need to make it more than 1/2" wide and maybe 1/4" deep. Then get a small piece of aluminum gutter flashing, and cut it to match the new cutaway edge as well as the height of the filter top. This will visually close up the "notch". Epoxy it to the inside of the filter top. Then sand it with 180 grit to replicate the surface texture of the filter top.
If you also decide to look at the frame horns with the engine out and find that you can level them out slightly so that the engine sits horizontal, then you may already achieve the needed clearance of the right air filter top to the body edge. You can then simply turn the filter top 180 degrees so that your notch faces frontwards. It'll be completely out of sight. |
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costonjs
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Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Rome wrote: |
| I can relate to your wanting to keep the ribbed filter top |
i just got back from a chat with the local machine shop guy. he says he can do the manifold milling for $40 to $50. he was stumped for a while trying to figure out how to clamp the manifold in place so that he could index it. i only had a straight scat manifold for him to look at. he said he could deal with the twisty cb manifold as well. it looks like i'll go with this method. not too pricey. i need to do a little measuring and math to find out how much to take off first.
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73 sport beetle blue 1745cc (going to sister)
74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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costonjs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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went the machine shop route. a bit pricier than i had hoped at $54 but the guy said he had a hard time clamping the manifold. the result is what i was looking for. i've driven the car a few miles and no clanking! at least from the air filter housing. to all who participated, thanks for the ideas.
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74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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Rome
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Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Excellent! Did the shop perform any work on the air cleaner base, or just on the manifold? What type of cutting did they do on the manifold to get your ~1/4" clearance? Any photos of the manifold after their work? |
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costonjs
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Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Excellent! Did the shop perform any work on the air cleaner base, or just on the manifold? What type of cutting did they do on the manifold to get your ~1/4" clearance? Any photos of the manifold after their work? |
manifold only. here's what i did. i measured the distance from the outside base of the manifold (pivoting point) to the top of the air filter where it was striking the body. 13.25" then i measured the width of the manifold. 1.95" then i figured that if i moved the top 5/16" inboard then .046" needed to be milled at the inside edge of the manifold base to 0" at the outside edge which is an angle of about 1.35 degrees. the change was barely noticeable and i knew what to look for. i didn't take a photo of the manifold but here is a portion of a screen capture as i did take a bit of video.
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73 sport beetle blue 1745cc (going to sister)
74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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Rome
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9654
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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Aha, now I see. Seems you still have enough clearance from the left side of the air cleaner to the fan shroud despite the tilt-in.
What are the specs of your engine? |
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costonjs
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Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Aha, now I see. Seems you still have enough clearance from the left side of the air cleaner to the fan shroud despite the tilt-in. |
sure, some fan shrouds, like my empi, net you some room.
| Rome wrote: |
| What are the specs of your engine? |
it's a 1745 running a karcey miler cam with about 8.4:1 compression. hydraulic lifters too. i last drove this car extensively when 55 mph was the law. got good mileage then. at 65 mph now i'm a bit disappointed but the engine still isn't broken in and 4th gear is a joke. still, i should have juiced the compression a bit more. if you really want to dive into the build, i have been documenting things on youtube. www.youtube.com/channel/UCj7f9nHTxhRiLRLv5YJ42Cw/playlists?view=50&flow=grid&shelf_id=1
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74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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costonjs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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fyi: here's a 7 second vid of the setup and clanking on youtube.
Link
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74 std beetle grey w/ factory sunroof 2016cc |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:26 am Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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I trimmed the boy flange years ago.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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costonjs
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Posts: 196
Location: lawrence, ks
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:42 am Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| I trimmed the boy flange years ago. |
looks like you trimmed a bit on the left too. your right trimming is the biggest i''ve seen so far. i did do a bit of looking on the internet for a solution before coming to thesamba and i saw a tremendous number of right hand clearanced engine compartments. why is it that the right generally appears to be where the problem lies?
also, you put a fair number of miles on that engine in your travels and certainly with air filters. how do you fit a filter on that engine? edit: i just looked at some of the photos you have posted here. you have a driver set of carbs to go with that race set.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:06 am Post subject: Re: carb air filter tops are smacking the engine compartment |
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The trimming of the body was done for previous engines with dual Dellorto carbs.
My current 2180 has dual IDAs and they don't need the body to be trimmed.
I run filters all the time, that picture was when I reinstalled the engine and didn't get the filters on yet.
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Glenn
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