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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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What's wrong with being fifty??
I represent that remark!
FWIW,
Leakdown on the stand is SOP.
A builder would rather know there is an issue -before- the motor gets buttoned up.
Finding out the heads or valves aren't sealing is WAY easier to fix when it's on the stand sitting there clean already.
Shows your builder is on the ball no doubt.
90% at 100PSI is nice for all new stuff, long as they are all right there, you're golden.
I do ignorance-is-bliss WRT leakdown later, after a (street) motor is off and running.
Unless there's a problem, or i just gots ta know.
Link
This motor should last you the rest of your life.
There's obviously so little of it left!! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22448 Location: Escondido CA
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9755 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Happy belated birthday xevin.
Welcome to the fifty club. I'll be out of it next year.
Get xaties engine running. Remember, happy wife. Happy life.
In hind sight, I should have installed my engine last month. The weather has been so nice. Well, except for the freezing cold mornings.
I like the idea of the breakin party.
Have a great Sunday! _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
I like the idea of the breakin party. |
I LOVE BREAKIN’ PARTIES Anybody know the year of the vert in this clip?
Link
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9755 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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I put the vert at 62-64? That's a guess based on the door trim and the door handle.
Do I get a prize? _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=699610
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2204900
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1867615
This stuff came stock on ALL beetles;
For several reasons.
People take it off for only two reasons - lazy or stupid(or both).
It shows how many lazy and/or stupid people have owned these cars,
That they are so difficult/expensive to find now!
If you ever find a beetle that was well-cared-for, or unmolested, it will have this stuff.
Many places still have these parts lying around in boxes.
Useta just find it and put it in my pocket..
There's a set of those flaps and t-stat under a tree for free somewhere within 1/2 mile of your house no doubt.
If you start your motor from cold, and on a cold day:
If you do not have this thermostat/flaps stuff, most all air from the fan blows on the motor.
Not the end of the world, but the motor wants to warm up,
Heat makes things grow to correct operating dimensions,
And it's harder do so with all of the fan air on it.
So the car runs sluggish, and takes a long time to operate correctly and be fun to drive.
They say most wear comes from cold starts, and this exacerbates the issue.
While the heads and cylinders are trying to heat/grow from the inside,
The fan is cooling/shrinking these parts from he outside.
If the t-stat is in place, most of the air goes through the heater boxes and not onto the motor.
Not only is this better for your motor, it is better for your relationship.
Most all of the fan's air now comes past the (now more rapidly heating, thanks to less fan air onto the motor) heater boxes, up through the heater channels, and into the car.
If you don't have the t-stat stuff,
Your car will run as normal once everything is up to temp,
Except:
It will have worn itself out more,
Used more fuel than it needed to,
Been sketchy to drive at first,
Taken longer to heat up,
Taken longer to clear the windshield,
Xatie will have formed a slightly different opinion about how well she likes the car.
FWIW,
None of my cars have a horn that works.
Only the bus has a functional dome light.
If i had to pick between wipers and a t-stat, I'll take the t-stat.
Not really much sense in even having heater boxes if you aren't going to be pushing air through them..
....Ranting... Must... Stop...
Anyhow,
Hope this helps you understand the issue a bit;
There's tons of opinions on the subject.
If you were building an open dune buggy, or sandrail, or drag car,
it would be a different story.
Even if you were building some kind of hot rod, it might change things.
Some kind of fair-weather only, let-it-warm-up-a-really-long-time toy for shows..
That's where all of this discussion comes from on sites like this;
When you start talking hot-rods, it becomes way, way easier/cheaper to build -without- the heater boxes,
And that leads to also leaving off the t-stat..
Big motors need big exhausts. Building big-bore heater boxes is very hard (or $$Expensive$$)
Almost any big motor jockey would gladly take a set of big heater boxes if you gave them a set,
But,
They're like $1,000, so you never see them.
You are building a stocker for your girl to drive to work.
This is SO squarely 100% into "run a thermostat" territory,
That nobody who understands these things would ever argue otherwise.
ANYhow,
You probably already have a set and just didn't say so, right?
And I'm all ranting over nothing..
Dang you Xevin,
Got me again! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Xevin wrote: |
Clatter wrote: |
Stoked!
If you want me to talk to Xatie, and pontificate upon the long-term benefits of a job well done, let me know..
I’m voting for the whole 100% stock treatment - with working/clean heat risers, thermostat/flaps, oil bath cleaner with functional stovepipe, pea-shooters, the whole enchilada.
Once you get it all 100% like Mother Volkswagen intended,
The experience is unreal.
The flawless cold-starts and warm-up/running is something to experience.
It’s like this precision sewing machine or something.
The quiet grace, the reserved manners, the flawless low-end pull..
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Yes. All the encouragement to Xatie is appreciated
Yes. It will have all the working original fixins you mentioned (74 is paper filter) except exhaust. I haven’t found an original exhaust I like yet. Haven’t looked that hard. |
Yes buddy, we discussed back on page 3. That is the plan. I like you ranting about the importance of proper heating for others to see. I know how important T-stats and flaps are on my busses with Type 4 engines.
Now where I might dick it a bit, is exhaust. I’m going to run the glass pack header the PO had. This is a good time of year to experiment in Oregon. I understand how the vacuum effect of the OEM/Pea shooter exhaust works to flow heat. Some have speculated that the little bit the header will draw along with the 74 plastic air filter box in my climate should work well. Maybe it all Jive talk but it will be an interesting experiment.
Now, if warm up is not buttery smooth as Xatie and I like it to be. My friend gave me an OEM Pea shooter exhaust to swap.
I always appreciate your comments Clatter. Although my builder bro probably wants to punch us in the face _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Xevin wrote: |
I’m going to run the glass pack header the PO had.
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Xevin wrote: |
This is a good time of year to experiment in Oregon. I understand how the vacuum effect of the OEM/Pea shooter exhaust works to flow heat. Some have speculated that the little bit the header will draw along with the 74 plastic air filter box in my climate should work well. Maybe it all Jive talk but it will be an interesting experiment.
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I'll save you the speculation. It won't work. There, you're welcome! No header will flow near enough exhaust to warm up the carb manifold correctly. Some have added an additional pipe to the header to create the same effect as the stock muffler.
To Clatters point- It's a night and day difference between a stock engine with no thermostat and flaps, no warm air flow to the oil bath/air cleaner and no flow through the heat risers vs. an engine that has them all intact.
HUGE difference. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
I'll save you the speculation. It won't work. There, you're welcome! No header will flow near enough exhaust to warm up the carb manifold correctly. Some have added an additional pipe to the header to create the same effect as the stock muffler.
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For reference of those interested in what Bill is talking about:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=333608&highlight=heat+riser _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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[quote=“Xevin”] glass pack header [/quote]
Face Palm...
Punch us in the face?
Your builder is Stuart!?!? _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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I hear you boys. That’s why I laid this plan out for criticism from you all. How exactly does the 74 style plastic air filter work with all its vacuum hoses? I’ve read a lot but don’t fully comprehend the contrast to earlier type 1 preheat setups. Some folks have speculated it should pull enough heat with this combo I plan in my climate. Does a 74 air box pull any heat? Does it only work with OEM exhaust intact? Bug started up and ran great with this header in altitude and cool air (low 40s) However it’s getting cold out (high 30s) and I have not run it with enough experience to know how it will do. I understand the advantages of all the T stat stuff. Will I benefit (performance) more from the header with some heat. Or benefit more just running stock exhaust and forget about header?
Can somebody with experience on the how the plastic air box works with a header and all the Thermostat stat gear in place? I get you Bill and I’ve already read AlmostHeavens link months ago.
I do have an OEM exhaust in the bullpen ready to go. Just thinking of experimenting.
So why stay with this current exhaust? Because with the crap 1600 DP GEX engine previously. The car performed liked Xatie’s old Miata. Which she loved. I want to maintain that feel. This build is to replicate that nimble low end it had.
But..... BS start up feathering for 5 minutes is not an option. See plan B. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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What if I just went loco and did this?
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05200-p/155-203-05200.htm
Any benefit for my stock 1641 stock build? Overkill? Not enough to benefit for the cost? Again I may start out header and play with other options later after I get it going. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22448 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Yeah its going to look and sound fucking cool. Thats the only reason I put one on my 77 bus _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:32 am Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Xevin wrote: |
..... How exactly does the 74 style plastic air filter work with all its vacuum hoses? I’ve read a lot but don’t fully comprehend the contrast to earlier type 1 preheat setups.
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1 tutorial comin' right up, buddy!
Vacuum signal comes from the manifold vacuum port directly below the carb mounting flange, left side. Hose goes from there up to the left side port of the airbox 'thermostat valve.' Then hose goes from right side port on thermostat to the top of the 'dome' on the right side of the airbox (on the snout).
When engine is cold, thermostat allows vacuum to pass through to draw the 'flapper' in the snout up which blocks off the 'snout' intake and rather draws the intake air through the 'elbow' below the snout from the 'preheat stove pipe' which is underneath and rests on the right side exhaust- thereby drawing warmed air into the carb during cold engine/cool start conditions. This system intact allows for MUCH IMPROVED cold/cool engine drivability. (ask me how I know )
Preheat 'stovepipe in place from underneath:
Any more Q's just ask, X! _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Thank you so much for that. I got next round
Haven’t had access to my Bentley for a couple weeks. Didn’t mean for you to do my homework Whats with that stove pipe bit by the push rod tubes? I don’t recall ever seeing that. Cheers brother.
Link
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Xevin wrote: |
Thank you so much for that. I got next round
Haven’t had access to my Bentley for a couple weeks. Didn’t mean for you to do my homework Whats with that stove pipe bit by the push rod tubes? I don’t recall ever seeing that. Cheers brother.
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Here's that stovepipe/preheat adapter/preheat elbow whatchamacallit:
Round end pops up through the engine tin, preheat elbow on airbox > hose > stovepipe
It has a few connections to secure it.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=489953&highlight=stove+pipe _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Thanks for clarifying “Stove Pipe”. That I have, didn’t understand terminology. But this little pigtail thing in the picture with a VW# on it is what has confused me _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Xevin wrote: |
Thanks for clarifying “Stove Pipe”. That I have, didn’t understand terminology. But this little pigtail thing in the picture with a VW# on it is what has confused me |
Oh, okay- I got you: (although our oil fillers don't have the draft tube.- VW added and deleted it throughout the years. )
That's the 'duckbill' valve/cap on the old school oil filler 'draft tube'
(#45 here)
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/engine/40_hp_engine.cfm?type=1 _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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Ohh OK. Now I get it. I’m usually not so lazy researching stuff. Thank you. Xatie and I enjoying our last day of vacation and currently listening to one of our favorite bands. This seems appropriate
Link
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: “Mullet The Bug” a bugs story. |
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You ever been to an amusement park as kid? All geeked up to ride the latest and greatest roller coaster. You know, the one that wasn’t there the last time you went but your friends told you how awesome it is. So you wait an hour in a long ass line. You get right up to the launching pad with the smell of machine oil, cotton candy, sunblock, sweat, and.......then the park shuts down the coaster for “Maintenance”. WTF! It’s a big disappointment
Yeah......I gotta call. I get “You’re not going to like this” Said he is not happy with the sound he hears from the cam gear. Mind you this silly engine has been mocked and spun with his hand crank time after time. All good. On the latest mock up this ticking noise appears. In the room with him is two other ACVW builders. They didn’t feel it was much to worry about. But my buddy said “Not on Xatie’s engine” not letting it out like that. Now keep in mind. My buddy loves Xatie and knows what a big disappointment this whole thing has been for her. He’s going all OCD to make it tip top. Now it’s time to find a suitable gears. This build is like that roller coaster. Better to find out now then stuck on a track.
Link
Much respect to you pros that build these things and DIY guy that does it on the weekends.
Link
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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