'78 bus starting problem

[Rick Kane]

UPDATE 11/26/18
As I kind of mentioned below, my battery seemed to be going bad even though I just got a new one, so I decided I might as well replace the voltage regulator. Viola! Well, it still doesn't start but it does turn over very strong, much better than before. I also replaced the valve cover gaskets and rechecked the static timing with a multi-meter. I get 12V right at 7.5* before TDC (as in, it goes from 0V to 12V at the condenser side of the coil). Unfortunately I haven't been able to check the spark like Wildthings recommended, but last time I had a mechanic look at it he said it looked weak and orange. I assume it's still that way.

So at this point I'm hoping for some feedback on my new theory: the voltage regulator was bad and getting worse this whole time and was "blowing out" my condenser and/or coil, preventing me from ever getting good spark. If so, now that my voltage regulator is fixed a new condenser would be all she needs! Is this possible???


Original:
Hi all. I’ve spent many hours of searching and hate to admit defeat, but I’m stuck. My bus hasn’t been the same since I took it to an amateur mechanic two years ago (before I learned how to work on it myself). He replaced the gas tank and did a major tune up with new cap, rotor, and spark plugs. He had it for 3 months and when he gave it back to me the ignition wasn’t working, but it would fire up by jumping/hotwiring the starter. I let it sit for months before tackling the ignition problem. I ended up putting in a new ignition switch and a remote start button instead of fixing the ignition barrel. After that it would start but not stay running. I had to gas it or it would die. Occasionally it would backfire. Eventually it wouldn’t start at all unless I used starter fluid. Eventually even that didn’t work.
I thought it was a fuel problem, so I disassembled and cleaned the carburetor and put in a new intake gasket. No change. Checked fuel supply: fuel flows fine when I disconnect the fuel line that goes into the carb. I had it pump out into a bucket and the fuel condition seemed fine, but I decided to put in new ethanol free gas. Nope. Thought it was a vacuum leak, so I replaced the intake boots and exhaust manifold gaskets. Nope. Rebuilt carb with rebuild kit. Nope. Ordered new 32/36 DFEV carb. Started right up!!! Ran for 30 minutes, then sputtered and died. I thought it ran out of gas but put in more gas and couldn’t get it restarted. Disassembled the carb and all looked good. Not clogged or dirty. Again, fuel flowed strongly out of fuel line when I disconnected it from the carb and turned the key on. Tried starter fluid and still wouldn’t start. At this point the battery and starter were struggling even with a jump. Replaced battery, but starter was still weak. Replaced starter, still sounded weak and bus still wouldn’t start. Cleaned and tightened ground straps and the starter sounded better but still a little sluggish (a few slow chugs every now and then). Checked static timing (don’t have timing light) and it was way off. For some reason my distributor rotor points at around 6:00 (straight at me) when it’s at TDC, so I had to turn the distributor a good bit clockwise to line it up. I checked TDC by looking at the valves for cylinder 1 (when they are both closed). With the adjusted timing it still wouldn’t start. Verified all wires go to correct cylinders. A mechanic friend checked and said my spark looked weak. Replaced coil with a bosch 12v blue one (same as before), replaced condenser, replaced points, gapped points to 0.016”. Lubed distributor cams/lobes. Verified points opened and closed by turning crank (don’t have a dwell meter). Gapped spark plugs to 0.026. Checked valve clearances and adjusted to 0.006. Checked resistance of ignition wires with multimeter: Spark plug wires all ~1000 ohms, Distributor wire at ~5,000 ohms. Checked power to coil at terminal 15: 12V (again with multimeter). Checked power between terminals 0 and 15 on coil with key on: 12V. Resistance across terminals 0 and 15 with wires all disconnected: 3,500 ohms. Can’t think of any other tests I did but am sure I’m missing something.
Where I’m at right now is it will crank just fine (well, sometimes a little hesitation) but not fire up and run, even with start fluid. Here are my specs:
1978 bus. I assume it’s the 2.0 motor
Automatic
Weber/empi 32/36 DFEV carburetor
Bosch 009 centrifugal distributor (#0231178009)
Bosch 12v blue coil (#9220081083) (00012)
Condenser #1237300280 (02086)
Points: Bosch #01011
Cap #1235522056 (030100)
Rotor #1234332215 (04033)
Electronic fuel pump
Other things to mention:
I just noticed my valve covers have no gaskets, though I don’t think that would prevent it from starting.
Initially I’d forgotten to plug the vacuum hole on my carb, but it’s plugged now since I don’t have SVDA.
I did check the fuel mixture screw and it is 2 turns out.
That’s about all I can think of. Thanks for reading and I apologize for giving up on the “Search” function. I’ve spent literally dozens of hours researching and testing. My wife wants me to give up and sell it for parts so she can have her husband back, but I don't want to lose a couple grand on it. Please let me know what I may have missed. I might’ve already tried it and forgot to list it here. Thanks all. Aloha, Scott

[Wildthings]

Lets see pictures of your crankcase ventilation. If done wrong then in combination with not having valve cover gaskets the mixture could be leaning way way out.

Buy or make a remote starter switch and then verify that the spark at the end of your coil wire will jump a 1/4" gap, if it does then remove each spark plug in turn and using a spare plug verify that the spark will jump the spark plug gap.

With the ignition on and the coil wire 1/4" from ground when turning the engine clockwise slowly by hand you should get a spark right at 7.5° BTDC.

[Rick Kane]

Bump for monthly update

[airschooled]

Hi Scott,

Spark color is vastly related to atmospheric conditions. Your spark color will be primarily based on ozone and other gas content where the bus is located. It’s more important to have a spark that is happy to jump a 1/4” gap like Wildthings said.

Does the engine attempt to start? Or not at all?
When cylinder #1 is ready to fire, #3 will also have closed valves, due to it changing from exhaust to intake stroke. The REAL check for TDC is to watch valves while a helper rotates the engine back and forth across TDC. If your engine is at TDC for #1, cylinder #3’s valves will move when the engine is rotated about 20 degrees back and forth.

The opposite is true: if the engine is at TDC for #3, the valves on cylinder #1 will rock when the engine is rotated back and forth.

Good luck,
Robbie
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[Rick Kane]

Asiab3,
I just tried to start it using starter fluid and it barely started before immediately dying after about 2 seconds. Mostly it'll turn/chug happily but doesn't really try to start. To locate TDC I turned it so both valves at number 1 were closed (with a little play) while if I turned the engine left/right I saw the left valve of #2 open/close (following a youtube video). Was that wrong...? I don't have a helper during the week so it would be tough to see #3 while turning.

[Rick Kane]

Wildthings- this is first I ever even looked at my crankcase ventilator - I don't even know what it's supposed to look like. See attached picture. Also, can you identify what the brown wire with the white stripe is going to on the left? It comes from the firewall and clips onto a vertical tube. Is that related? ps I did replace the spark plug you see loose in the second photo.

[Abscate]

[Rick Kane]

Oh, you noticed that... I'm a little bit electrically challenged but am learning. The weird thing is that for months, until I replaced the voltage regulator, I couldn't even start it with starter fluid. Although honestly all last year I could , leading to believe it was a fuel problem (see original post). I suppose it could be both.
[edit] I'll add that the fuel flows strongly from the pump although I've never tested it. Will research how to do that. Also it's kind of loud, starting as soon as I turn the key ON and never quieting down.

[Wildthings]

Your breather isn't hooked up at this moment. You want it to feed into the top of your air cleaner, so that the hose has sufficient slope to easily drain any watery crud back into the crankcase aftershut down. If allowed to build up in the hose it will block the hose off, cause high crankcase pressure, and in turn cause oil to leak from everywhere.

What color is the wire that is connected to your brown wire? Blue with a black tracers?


If you crank your engine with the spark plug laying over top of the carb, you may not be happy with the results.

[timvw7476]

The VR seems to be mounted upside down.
Now I'm going to have nightmares. GNight.

[Rick Kane]

Tim, if the VR is upside down it's from the previous owner, as was the crappy wire splicing. VR= ? vapor recovery? [edit] - voltage regulator! Funny but I replaced it the same way it was originally. Typical of the PO.

Wildthings, yeah, I see where the breather isn't hooked up. Again, it came that way. I've never thought about it because I've had the air cleaner off this whole time, since it last ran 2 years ago. I don't remember there being a port for a hose on the air box so I'll check when I get home. I do remember there was one on my '69 camaro. You don't think this would cause the starting problem though, do you? [edit] The brown wire connects to a black wire then goes through the firewall. And yes, I know not to try to start the engine with a spark plug resting on a carburetor, but thanks for the tip!

So from the advice I've gotten so far I should:
-redo the wiring to the fuel pump
-get some kind of meter to test the fuel pump or get a new one
-connect a hose from the breather to the air box
-check the spark at the coil wire with a 1/4" gap to ground
-if no/weak spark get a new condenser...?
-if it still doesn't start... well I already promised my wife I wouldn't put any more $ into it, so that might be game over. Sell it for parts and admit I got in over my head.

[Wildthings]

A black wire should be the #15 ignition circuit. What color wire do you have going to the #15 (positive) side of the coil?

[Rick Kane]

[Wildthings]

The vertical post is a hack for the oil pressure switch, it should be fed by a blue wire with a black tracer according to the schematics, though VW used several different colors over the years. Does your oil pressure warning light come on when you first turn the key to the "ON" position? Does it go out after 5-15 seconds of cranking or when the engine starts?

The original black wire to the coil wasn't all that heavy, just maybe 16ga. Not sure what you have going on here, but maybe a PO's hack that may not be working right. What voltage do you have on the positive side of the coil when you turn the key on?

[Rick Kane]

[Wildthings]

[Rick Kane]

[Rick Kane]

[Rick Kane]

I realized I could clamp the tip of the main ignition wire in place 1/4" to ground, point my phone at it, and record it while I cranked the engine. Nice spark easily jumping the gap. Tomorrow I'll check each of the spark plugs. Edit: see crappy picture from screen grab of video

[Wildthings]

You can leave the oil pressure switch disconnected if you like but you will not have a way to know if you aren't making oil pressure so be wary. I would use care with any loose black wire to make sure it can't ground out.

You need the choke heater hooked up if you want the choke to open and operate normally. Without power the engine will begin to run too rich as it warms up and eventually flood and stall out.