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narfro
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Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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I've searched around the bay window bus forums and found a few threads kind of dancing around this question, but haven't really seen too many examples or heard enough stories to be completely certain that I want to install a propex heater with an LPG tank mounted under the sliding door.
I just came back from a camping trip up in Mammoth, while the hot springs warmed me up, the below 20 degree weather in a tin can didn't feel too good in the middle of the night. I'm exploring options on how to heat myself up, make for a more 'glamping' style experience, and ultimately be safe. I tend to beat the hell out of my bay window camper. I take it on dirt whenever possible and sometimes find myself navigating some pretty tricky terrain.
The biggest concern I have with the propex heater option is losing ground clearance from the LPG tank and possibly puncturing the tank and having a situation turn catastrophic. Anyone found themselves in a similar situation? What did you end up doing and if you did install a propex and LPG tank can you post some photos?
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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There's more than one place to store propane, the roof rack would add to that "overlander" look, or on a bracket on the rear like a spare tire. In Europe they keep the gas bottles inside the bus (in sealed cabinets with gravity vents through the floor in case they leak). You could also use disposable bottles if you aren't playing the greenie social media angle for Youtube hits and just want to stay warm.
Another option is the Espar D-2 diesel fueled heater, they don't need a big tank and there's plenty of places to hide that out of harms way.
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narfro
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
There's more than one place to store propane, the roof rack would add to that "overlander" look, or on a bracket on the rear like a spare tire. In Europe they keep the gas bottles inside the bus (in sealed cabinets with gravity vents through the floor in case they leak). You could also use disposable bottles if you aren't playing the greenie social media angle for Youtube hits and just want to stay warm.
Another option is the Espar D-2 diesel fueled heater, they don't need a big tank and there's plenty of places to hide that out of harms way. |
Haha nice little quip at the end. I didn't realize I could just attach a smaller, disposable tank to the propex.
So not sure if you would know this, but if I were just to use a disposable 16 oz coleman would I still need to drill through the floor to attach the elbow and gas line? Or would that be something I can just twist on to the propex itself in the cabin and let it run until it burns out? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| narfro wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
There's more than one place to store propane, the roof rack would add to that "overlander" look, or on a bracket on the rear like a spare tire. In Europe they keep the gas bottles inside the bus (in sealed cabinets with gravity vents through the floor in case they leak). You could also use disposable bottles if you aren't playing the greenie social media angle for Youtube hits and just want to stay warm.
Another option is the Espar D-2 diesel fueled heater, they don't need a big tank and there's plenty of places to hide that out of harms way. |
Haha nice little quip at the end. I didn't realize I could just attach a smaller, disposable tank to the propex.
So not sure if you would know this, but if I were just to use a disposable 16 oz coleman would I still need to drill through the floor to attach the elbow and gas line? Or would that be something I can just twist on to the propex itself in the cabin and let it run until it burns out? |
That depends entirely on your level of comfort bringing explosive gases inside, they rarely leak, but if you smell gas be prepared to bail out immediately and air it out. If it's outside it'll never matter, but you may have to go outside in the winter to change one out, I don't know how many hours those little bottle last running a Propex. Maybe there's an hourly consumption chart on their website?
Many owners get away with those portable "buddy" heaters inside and I haven't heard of anyone blowing themselves up yet.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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narfro
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| narfro wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
There's more than one place to store propane, the roof rack would add to that "overlander" look, or on a bracket on the rear like a spare tire. In Europe they keep the gas bottles inside the bus (in sealed cabinets with gravity vents through the floor in case they leak). You could also use disposable bottles if you aren't playing the greenie social media angle for Youtube hits and just want to stay warm.
Another option is the Espar D-2 diesel fueled heater, they don't need a big tank and there's plenty of places to hide that out of harms way. |
Haha nice little quip at the end. I didn't realize I could just attach a smaller, disposable tank to the propex.
So not sure if you would know this, but if I were just to use a disposable 16 oz coleman would I still need to drill through the floor to attach the elbow and gas line? Or would that be something I can just twist on to the propex itself in the cabin and let it run until it burns out? |
That depends entirely on your level of comfort bringing explosive gases inside, they rarely leak, but if you smell gas be prepared to bail out immediately and air it out. If it's outside it'll never matter, but you may have to go outside in the winter to change one out, I don't know how many hours those little bottle last running a Propex. Maybe there's an hourly consumption chart on their website?
Many owners get away with those portable "buddy" heaters inside and I haven't heard of anyone blowing themselves up yet. |
Something like 1lb of propane for every 3 hours.
Now I'm interested in seeing if anyone else has gone this route with a propex installed under the bed. |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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No matter what type of heater you run, if it's burning fuel, have a carbon monoxide detector in the van.
No use in being both warm and dead. 
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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I have no real personal experience with the Propex, but I did install an Espar D2 in my Westy and think it is pretty great. Much nicer than the Buddy heater I did use in the past. Because you don't get all that water vapor in there (One time, I woke up in the morning and had tons of water froze on the windshield and other windows.) Also, at least one of them (I've had a couple versions) always made a high pitched noise on low settings.
Not sure about propane, but if you went with a diesel heater, you could install your fuel tank in the engine compartment. Though if you're not driving every day, it would be a good idea to have a house battery. I still think you could probably get both in there if you are creative.
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narfro
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
I have no real personal experience with the Propex, but I did install an Espar D2 in my Westy and think it is pretty great. Much nicer than the Buddy heater I did use in the past. Because you don't get all that water vapor in there (One time, I woke up in the morning and had tons of water froze on the windshield and other windows.) Also, at least one of them (I've had a couple versions) always made a high pitched noise on low settings.
Not sure about propane, but if you went with a diesel heater, you could install your fuel tank in the engine compartment. Though if you're not driving every day, it would be a good idea to have a house battery. I still think you could probably get both in there if you are creative. |
That's interesting - diesel fuel and the tank (presumably plastic?) would be fine in the engine bay? I'm trying to find photos of someone rigging that up in their bay window, but don't seem to be having any luck. |
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narfro
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
I have no real personal experience with the Propex, but I did install an Espar D2 in my Westy and think it is pretty great. Much nicer than the Buddy heater I did use in the past. Because you don't get all that water vapor in there (One time, I woke up in the morning and had tons of water froze on the windshield and other windows.) Also, at least one of them (I've had a couple versions) always made a high pitched noise on low settings.
Not sure about propane, but if you went with a diesel heater, you could install your fuel tank in the engine compartment. Though if you're not driving every day, it would be a good idea to have a house battery. I still think you could probably get both in there if you are creative. |
Also, I'm pretty jealous of your TDI conversion. 6 months ago I spent an arm and a leg rebuilding my 1.7 type IV engine. With how much it ended up costing and all of the extra fluff I added I kind of wish I would have converted over to something similar. |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| narfro wrote: |
| vwwestyman wrote: |
I have no real personal experience with the Propex, but I did install an Espar D2 in my Westy and think it is pretty great. Much nicer than the Buddy heater I did use in the past. Because you don't get all that water vapor in there (One time, I woke up in the morning and had tons of water froze on the windshield and other windows.) Also, at least one of them (I've had a couple versions) always made a high pitched noise on low settings.
Not sure about propane, but if you went with a diesel heater, you could install your fuel tank in the engine compartment. Though if you're not driving every day, it would be a good idea to have a house battery. I still think you could probably get both in there if you are creative. |
That's interesting - diesel fuel and the tank (presumably plastic?) would be fine in the engine bay? I'm trying to find photos of someone rigging that up in their bay window, but don't seem to be having any luck. |
I think I'd probably try to find an aluminum tank, though in reality I personally wouldn't be too scared of a plastic tank. Unless the engine is already on fire from a separate source, and assuming you had it secured, I wouldn't worry at all. Diesel is somewhat difficult to ignite. You could throw a match into a puddle of diesel fuel, and it would likely just put the match out.
I haven't seen this proposed setup (second tank in the engine compartment) on a Bay window, but have seen it in the Vanagon forums. There is one guy who build a box behind the passenger seat that houses both his D2 heater and fuel tank here in the Bay forums. Mine is on my TDI Bus, so it uses the on-board fuel.
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President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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On the battery front, my D2 will run overnight one night on the main battery, but will hit the low-voltage shutdown sometime during the second night. I could adjust the low voltage shutdown threshold lower but didn't want to damage the battery.
I'd imagine that a deep cycle battery would run it at least a couple nights due to the ability to give more amp-hours and run a bit further down.
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President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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tristessa
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Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| I found some unused space behind the icebox of my custom kitchen cabinet that was perfect for the 15L tank that came with my $200 eBay ChinAirtronic knockoff heater, which will utterly cook me out of the Bus if I let it. Just for chuckles last week set the thermostat to 38C and sat in there in shorts and a tank top. Got weird looks from the neighbors. Running it on kerosene partially because it smells less and partially because I had a couple gallons kicking around the garage.... |
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haggardrob
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Joined: February 18, 2007
Posts: 49
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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You can C-notch the outriggers with an appropriate sized piece of pipe to gain a extra 1-2" of clearance for the bottom of the propane tank to the ground... I did that and now the tank sits slightly higher than the main frame rails of the bus.
I'll try and upload some pics for ya soon.... |
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alaskadan
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Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1858
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| Haven't seen mention of a gas fired heater. Why not? |
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ToolBox
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| I found some unused space behind the icebox of my custom kitchen cabinet that was perfect for the 15L tank that came with my $200 eBay ChinAirtronic knockoff heater, which will utterly cook me out of the Bus if I let it. Just for chuckles last week set the thermostat to 38C and sat in there in shorts and a tank top. Got weird looks from the neighbors. Running it on kerosene partially because it smells less and partially because I had a couple gallons kicking around the garage.... |
Yep. Search ebay for 8Kw diesel heater and pick one of the hundreds of Espar knock off kits that pop up for around $200. Some come with programmable timer stats with remote control. A local club member bought on and installed it in his Bug that is built for autocross. Kit came with everything to install and run it. |
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Zed999
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Joined: March 04, 2018
Posts: 1248
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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8kw! I have a 5kw diesel heater that heats my 60ft boat via 5 radiators and a cylinder of hot water!
I have a 1.7kw Eber petrol blown air heater that is too much for the van in the UK but might be just right at 20°F. Petrol and diesel heaters are quite hard on the battery if they cycle on and off a lot plus you'll be hot/cold/hot/cold if you oversize it.
No need for extra tanks with a petrol heater is a bonus. My heater is in the engine bay but I cut out the spare wheel well to fit it which you might not want to do. |
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Hikelite
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Joined: August 31, 2012
Posts: 557
Location: Colville, WA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| alaskadan wrote: |
| Haven't seen mention of a gas fired heater. Why not? |
Exactly what I was thinking. Why does everyone want to add another fuel source when you already have a giant tank of fuel under the bed?
I have new heater boxes seem to work while driving, so I have other projects on my list before I add supplemental heating.
When I do get to that project, I plan to buy this, or something like it.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B94M8K3
The most common argument I've heard in favor of having a second heating fuel source, ie diesel or propane, is the fear of using up all your gasoline overnight. A gas can seems like the obvious solution to that problem, and it would be useful for any time I ran out of gas.
Like others have said, burning propane inside the bus adds a ton of water vapor on top of what you're already breathing out. Since we want the heat when it's cold out, the experience vwwestyman had is not uncommon with or without the heaters.
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narfro
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| Hikelite wrote: |
| alaskadan wrote: |
| Haven't seen mention of a gas fired heater. Why not? |
Exactly what I was thinking. Why does everyone want to add another fuel source when you already have a giant tank of fuel under the bed?
I have new heater boxes seem to work while driving, so I have other projects on my list before I add supplemental heating.
When I do get to that project, I plan to buy this, or something like it.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B94M8K3
The most common argument I've heard in favor of having a second heating fuel source, ie diesel or propane, is the fear of using up all your gasoline overnight. A gas can seems like the obvious solution to that problem, and it would be useful for any time I ran out of gas.
Like others have said, burning propane inside the bus adds a ton of water vapor on top of what you're already breathing out. Since we want the heat when it's cold out, the experience vwwestyman had is not uncommon with or without the heaters. |
I was reading a thread, not sure if it was aeromech or someone else, but they installed a propex for a customer and similar condensation and freezing was happening in the cabin. Might rethink that now.
The second fuel source really was kind of ideal because I would be worried about eating up my main fuel. My grabbers and rack bring my MPG down to about 15 and the 13.5 gallon tank barely takes me 200 miles. I do always carry a 5 gallon jerrycan with me though, so your amazon heater seems pretty interesting. The price is also enticing seeing as it’s significantly cheaper than a legit propex hs2000 or espar d2. Thanks for information. |
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narfro
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2017
Posts: 93
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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| haggardrob wrote: |
You can C-notch the outriggers with an appropriate sized piece of pipe to gain a extra 1-2" of clearance for the bottom of the propane tank to the ground... I did that and now the tank sits slightly higher than the main frame rails of the bus.
I'll try and upload some pics for ya soon.... |
Post some photos if you can. Thanks! |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Propex heater and 'overlanding' |
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If you search this forum for Aeromech and propex you should find my installation into a 1968 bus. Lots of pics. After the job was done I never got feedback from the customer on it. I fired it up in my driveway and was surprised to see a huge amount of condensation on the inside of the windows. Don’t know if other experienced this as well.
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