Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ?
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
74 standard
Samba Member


Joined: January 23, 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Canada
74 standard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

I'm starting my assembly and making sure I've got all my stuff and was looking for the seal that goes on the pulley end of the crank and it seems there isn't one ? I never noticed that when I took it apart Smile How does it not spit oil out ?

Another question, on a whim I bought one of those oil pressure boosting kits and now I'm wondering if I should put it in or just use the original springs. Thoughts?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dougy Dee
Samba Member


Joined: August 21, 2004
Posts: 1668
Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
Dougy Dee is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DurocShark
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 6624
Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
DurocShark is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Dougy Dee wrote:
The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration.


And they do a pretty darn good job of it. But the alternative is a "sand seal". I wouldn't bother with the kind that come with a metal cup for the seal, instead have the case machined directly for a seal.

Honestly, I wouldn't do it for anything short of a baja or dune buggy that will be taken offroad.
_________________
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
calvinater
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3306
Location: 802
calvinater is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Regarding oil springs , stock would work best on stock rebuild
_________________
"Albatross"!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Eric&Barb
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24670
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
Eric&Barb is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Dump the non-stock pressure relief springs in the recycle...
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bnam
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2931
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
bnam is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Your conn rods are not oriented correctly (the bumps don't appear to be all on the correct side).
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31268
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Dougy Dee wrote:
The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration.


Yes. Don't put the crankshaft into the case half without that slinger !!!
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
74 standard
Samba Member


Joined: January 23, 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Canada
74 standard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

bnam wrote:
Your conn rods are not oriented correctly (the bumps don't appear to be all on the correct side).


They are. It’s the way it looks in the pic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
74 standard
Samba Member


Joined: January 23, 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Canada
74 standard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Dougy Dee wrote:
The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration.


Yes. Don't put the crankshaft into the case half without that slinger !!!


Ya I’m not there yet Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bnam
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2931
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
bnam is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

74 standard wrote:
bnam wrote:
Your conn rods are not oriented correctly (the bumps don't appear to be all on the correct side).


They are. It’s the way it looks in the pic.


You're right -- my mistake -- #1 should be pointed to the left and it is correct.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26298
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Don't bother with oil spring boost kits. I'd rather detail the stock pump and cover plate (which was rather well described in the classic old "How to Hot-Rod VW Engines" book)

Yes, there is no seal, just a return reverse-spiral groove on the stock pulley, but high oil pressure can overload it. I was used to detailing out oil pumps as mentioned above when I set up the an engine for my 62. Unlike all the other 40HP engines I'd had before, this one had been factory-reworked for cam bearing shells, so it was "tighter" on the oil system, then on top of that, I accidentally grabbed a "high performance" spring for the relief spring. The resulting way-too-high oil pressure very soon led to an engine compartment slathered with oil on a test drive. Put a correct spring in there and all was fine.
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
74 standard
Samba Member


Joined: January 23, 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Canada
74 standard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

I bought a CB maxi pump 2 because I liked the idea of the filter. Thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26298
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

I always gathered that that sort of pump was OK if you already had a "tight" oil pressure system - that is, no "loose bearings", because the oil flow is somewhat unsmooth due to tight right angles that the oil needs to flow through the pump-mount spin-on filter. So the first and only time I tried one was on a brand new block. It's far from brand new now, but it's the 1600DP in my Baja Bug. I've never had a problem with oil pressure - good thing too - because I have had problems with high oil temperatures (and those were NOT caused by the pump and a filter hanging out near an exhaust header pipe, for a time I switched back to a stock pump to check this)

Oh, I've always continued to use the "small" oil filters that CB supplied my MP2 pump with - the OC25 (or OC84, or look for a BMW filter for a 318i)
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
74 standard
Samba Member


Joined: January 23, 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Canada
74 standard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
I always gathered that that sort of pump was OK if you already had a "tight" oil pressure system - that is, no "loose bearings", because the oil flow is somewhat unsmooth due to tight right angles that the oil needs to flow through the pump-mount spin-on filter. So the first and only time I tried one was on a brand new block. It's far from brand new now, but it's the 1600DP in my Baja Bug. I've never had a problem with oil pressure - good thing too - because I have had problems with high oil temperatures (and those were NOT caused by the pump and a filter hanging out near an exhaust header pipe, for a time I switched back to a stock pump to check this)

Oh, I've always continued to use the "small" oil filters that CB supplied my MP2 pump with - the OC25 (or OC84, or look for a BMW filter for a 318i)


I should be ok with it then. It’s a new build
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Pez
Samba Member


Joined: September 16, 2003
Posts: 583
Location: Texarkana
Pez is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Had a engine rebuilt 10 or more years ago that always leaked behind the pulley causing a oil mist on the paint. Had one old mechanic tell me the washer was on backwards. Haven’t thought much if it till reading your post so got me wondering which direction is correct. Dish in or dish out?
_________________
Always chasing Squirrel's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26298
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

outward toward the pulley.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DurocShark
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 6624
Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
DurocShark is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

I use a remote oil filter. MUCH longer lines the pump has to manage to keep the pressure up. And no pressure issues at all. Just gotta keep the level higher than you would normally and there's no problem. That and use a QUALITY filter, not some Fram bullshit. One with a quality check valve inside.
_________________
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26298
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

I have seen minor to major issues with remote mounted filters over the years. The simplicity of the pump mount spin on filter (if it fits next to a stock muffler, which is a concern I forgot to mention) is good. And the OC25 or Mann 712/6 filters I've used are quality ones.
_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DurocShark
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 6624
Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
DurocShark is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

I don't know anything about the OC25, but Mann... yessss... I use a Wix in my bug, and Mann in my Saab. The tests I've seen put both at the top. And Fram waaay at the bottom.

There's a Wix "Racing" filter on my bug right now. When I got it, the thing had a Microguard filter on there. Ugh.
_________________
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26298
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? Reply with quote

Oh, yeah, I don't think I said, but the OC series are by Mahle - usually a fairly well regarded name.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Andy T.


IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.