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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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I'm starting my assembly and making sure I've got all my stuff and was looking for the seal that goes on the pulley end of the crank and it seems there isn't one ? I never noticed that when I took it apart How does it not spit oil out ?
Another question, on a whim I bought one of those oil pressure boosting kits and now I'm wondering if I should put it in or just use the original springs. Thoughts?
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Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1668 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration. |
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DurocShark Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 6624 Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Dougy Dee wrote: |
The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration. |
And they do a pretty darn good job of it. But the alternative is a "sand seal". I wouldn't bother with the kind that come with a metal cup for the seal, instead have the case machined directly for a seal.
Honestly, I wouldn't do it for anything short of a baja or dune buggy that will be taken offroad. _________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3306 Location: 802
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Regarding oil springs , stock would work best on stock rebuild _________________ "Albatross"! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Dump the non-stock pressure relief springs in the recycle... _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2931 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Your conn rods are not oriented correctly (the bumps don't appear to be all on the correct side). _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Dougy Dee wrote: |
The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration. |
Yes. Don't put the crankshaft into the case half without that slinger !!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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bnam wrote: |
Your conn rods are not oriented correctly (the bumps don't appear to be all on the correct side). |
They are. It’s the way it looks in the pic. |
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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Cusser wrote: |
Dougy Dee wrote: |
The cupped slinger washer (missing in your pic) and the grooves on the pulley snout 'control' the oil migration. |
Yes. Don't put the crankshaft into the case half without that slinger !!! |
Ya I’m not there yet |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2931 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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74 standard wrote: |
bnam wrote: |
Your conn rods are not oriented correctly (the bumps don't appear to be all on the correct side). |
They are. It’s the way it looks in the pic. |
You're right -- my mistake -- #1 should be pointed to the left and it is correct. _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26298 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Don't bother with oil spring boost kits. I'd rather detail the stock pump and cover plate (which was rather well described in the classic old "How to Hot-Rod VW Engines" book)
Yes, there is no seal, just a return reverse-spiral groove on the stock pulley, but high oil pressure can overload it. I was used to detailing out oil pumps as mentioned above when I set up the an engine for my 62. Unlike all the other 40HP engines I'd had before, this one had been factory-reworked for cam bearing shells, so it was "tighter" on the oil system, then on top of that, I accidentally grabbed a "high performance" spring for the relief spring. The resulting way-too-high oil pressure very soon led to an engine compartment slathered with oil on a test drive. Put a correct spring in there and all was fine. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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I bought a CB maxi pump 2 because I liked the idea of the filter. Thoughts? |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26298 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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I always gathered that that sort of pump was OK if you already had a "tight" oil pressure system - that is, no "loose bearings", because the oil flow is somewhat unsmooth due to tight right angles that the oil needs to flow through the pump-mount spin-on filter. So the first and only time I tried one was on a brand new block. It's far from brand new now, but it's the 1600DP in my Baja Bug. I've never had a problem with oil pressure - good thing too - because I have had problems with high oil temperatures (and those were NOT caused by the pump and a filter hanging out near an exhaust header pipe, for a time I switched back to a stock pump to check this)
Oh, I've always continued to use the "small" oil filters that CB supplied my MP2 pump with - the OC25 (or OC84, or look for a BMW filter for a 318i) _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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glutamodo wrote: |
I always gathered that that sort of pump was OK if you already had a "tight" oil pressure system - that is, no "loose bearings", because the oil flow is somewhat unsmooth due to tight right angles that the oil needs to flow through the pump-mount spin-on filter. So the first and only time I tried one was on a brand new block. It's far from brand new now, but it's the 1600DP in my Baja Bug. I've never had a problem with oil pressure - good thing too - because I have had problems with high oil temperatures (and those were NOT caused by the pump and a filter hanging out near an exhaust header pipe, for a time I switched back to a stock pump to check this)
Oh, I've always continued to use the "small" oil filters that CB supplied my MP2 pump with - the OC25 (or OC84, or look for a BMW filter for a 318i) |
I should be ok with it then. It’s a new build |
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Pez Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2003 Posts: 583 Location: Texarkana
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Had a engine rebuilt 10 or more years ago that always leaked behind the pulley causing a oil mist on the paint. Had one old mechanic tell me the washer was on backwards. Haven’t thought much if it till reading your post so got me wondering which direction is correct. Dish in or dish out? _________________ Always chasing Squirrel's. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26298 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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outward toward the pulley.
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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DurocShark Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 6624 Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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I use a remote oil filter. MUCH longer lines the pump has to manage to keep the pressure up. And no pressure issues at all. Just gotta keep the level higher than you would normally and there's no problem. That and use a QUALITY filter, not some Fram bullshit. One with a quality check valve inside. _________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26298 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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I have seen minor to major issues with remote mounted filters over the years. The simplicity of the pump mount spin on filter (if it fits next to a stock muffler, which is a concern I forgot to mention) is good. And the OC25 or Mann 712/6 filters I've used are quality ones. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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DurocShark Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 6624 Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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I don't know anything about the OC25, but Mann... yessss... I use a Wix in my bug, and Mann in my Saab. The tests I've seen put both at the top. And Fram waaay at the bottom.
There's a Wix "Racing" filter on my bug right now. When I got it, the thing had a Microguard filter on there. Ugh. _________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26298 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: So there's no case seal on the pulley end of the crank ? |
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Oh, yeah, I don't think I said, but the OC series are by Mahle - usually a fairly well regarded name.
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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