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Jon Schmid
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I don't think he is being funny....


Sorry if I came across a bit harsh but these fires hit a bit close to home and my heart goes out to all of those folks who have lost everything, including family members.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

No worries, this is a very emotional topic.

I lived in Southern Oregon for many years and did a lot of Back Packing in the Forests out there.
I am well aware of how the forest is "built" with centuries of decomposed plant matter many inches thick on the forest floor.

I also know that the simple act of building a campfire carelessly on top of this forest floor can set a forest ablaze days after you are gone and supposedly put out the fire. The forest floor smolders deep within only later bursting into flame.

My comment was a tongue in cheek "This would be an impossible and ecologically disastrous task to undertake."

Sorry to offend, I've still got ties and family not far from many of these horrific fires.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

I've been debating since this topic started as to whether to post this or not. I didn't want to come across as a smart a$$ because that's not how it's intended but here goes....

I live near the east coast and we get our share of hurricanes. Fortunately, I live two hours inland so I don't get the full force of the hurricanes, just the left over wind, rain, etc which can still cause problems. I went 10 days without power two years ago during an ice storm. We know when a hurricane is coming. And I prepare.

I don't understand those people that stay on the coast and ride out the storm. They may lose everything including their life, house, RV, boat, VW, etc. Why don't they move their stuff inland a week ahead of time?

Same for the fires. I don't understand why people don't move their stuff - car, boat, RV - when they know a fire is consuming everything? I've never experienced a fire so I truly don't know. I'm sure it moves fast.

I'm just thinking that I would drive my car, boat, RV at least 4 hours in the opposite direction and put it in a "safe" place. Maybe it's hard to tell the direction to go?

So those of you with fire experience, help me understand. And I'm being very serious about this - no haters please.

Edit: And I do realize hurricanes aren't the same situations as fires.
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Last edited by bigdog1962 on Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

My opinion only but maybe a combination of factors including human nature, the belief “I’ll ride the storm out, because we’ve done it before”. For younger folks maybe a feeling of invincibility “ I’m a tough SOB”. Medical concerns which limit travel, very prevalent among the elderly. My dad is a great example now although he weathered a devastating hurricane in 1979 which nearly destroyed his home and he vowed to never shelter in place again he now refuses to evacuate. He’s not alone many many just like him. Failure of emergency management, not enough manpower or resources to stage large scale evacuations but most insidious conditions can change rapidly going from dangerous to deadly with a shift in wind. Fires can move many times faster than you can run or even drive. It’s all over at that point.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

Not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things with all the destruction, lost loved ones, and people just missing.

But the Bonneville bus listed on the first page is based out of Erie, PA and to my knowledge it is still here safe.

My family and I are thinking and praying for the victims of these tragedies. I could not begin to fathom the feelings one would be going through to not know where your loved ones were. It almost seems impossible in this day and age for this many people to lose their life or just plain be missing, it sounds like something you would read about from the 1800's.

Hang in there California we are pulling for you.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

I can relate the California wind driven fires best to working iron.

If any of you have worked iron by beating it and forming it using brute force.
You will understand how forced air changes A fires intensity.
When you work the bellows compressing the air the coals glow hotter and the flames increase. The temperature also rises.

Imagine a huge fire well fueled with a constant bellows pumping in air, not only increasing the heat but literally blowing the fire along the ground and sparks far ahead.
Now imagine these winds are 60 mph or so in velocity.

As mentioned you CANNOT OUTRUN a literal wall of fire.
Maybe if you had a straight clear highway you could, but on twisty mountain roads?
Fact is that you are quickly overtaken by flames that follow no highway and sadly you are soon dead.

Horrifying for sure.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

bigdog1962 wrote:
I've been debating since this topic started as to whether to post this or not. I didn't want to come across as a smart a$$ because that's not how it's intended but here goes....

I live near the east coast and we get our share of hurricanes. Fortunately, I live two hours inland so I don't get the full force of the hurricanes, just the left over wind, rain, etc which can still cause problems. I went 10 days without power two years ago during an ice storm. We know when a hurricane is coming. And I prepare.

I don't understand those people that stay on the coast and ride out the storm. They may lose everything including their life, house, RV, boat, VW, etc. Why don't they move their stuff inland a week ahead of time?

Same for the fires. I don't understand why people don't move their stuff - car, boat, RV - when they know a fire is consuming everything? I've never experienced a fire so I truly don't know. I'm sure it moves fast.

I'm just thinking that I would drive my car, boat, RV at least 4 hours in the opposite direction and put it in a "safe" place. Maybe it's hard to tell the direction to go?

So those of you with fire experience, help me understand. And I'm being very serious about this - no haters please.

Edit: And I do realize hurricanes aren't the same situations as fires.


The most recent fires were reported around 6:30AM and by 8am had burned more than 20,000 acres (31 square miles)
Seldom do people get any warning, especially a week, about a wild fire. Fire is also extremely unpredictable in the path it choses to take. It creates its own wind and can send hot embers miles away from its current location.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

bigdog1962 wrote:
I don't understand why people don't move their stuff - car, boat, RV - when they know a fire is consuming everything? I've never experienced a fire so I truly don't know. I'm sure it moves fast.



Depending on the wind and fuel they can move very fast. By the time I knew there was a fire heading towards me, there was barely enough time to hook up the trailer and load one non-running bus on there. Forget about all the interior cabinets that were out of it at the time. Shocked We were taking pictures in a mad rush for insurance purposes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can see how fast and hot the chaparrel burned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cut_Fire
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:08 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

I was looking for links like these and I hope they can help someone during both the Camp Fire and other horrific situations.

Safe and well from the American Red Cross

https://safeandwell.communityos.org

Paradise Recovers Site

https://paradiserecovers.org/paradise-daily-update-11-19-2018/



LAGrunthaner wrote:
Our hearts are broken with this horrific tragedy and all bracing ourselves with updates.

On the news this morning out of the tri-state area of the north east (NY, NJ & CT) stated up to 1000 missing. I do agree contact is difficult now that we no longer have to memorize phone numbers.

Is anyone aware of a website for family and friends to communicate that they are safe?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

I was at work at 3 pm when the Woolsey Fire was first reported as a minor local event 10 miles away, expected to be out out shortly. By 8 pm they were ordering evacuation areas all they way to the coast, almost 20 miles away. There was little or no warning to allow anything more than “10 minutes to grab kids, pets, valuables and be GONE!” And this was in the dark, power out in many areas, and roads closing fast. So other than having things like important papers and photos boxed and ready to go, there is no “preparing.”
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

I used to live on the hill that overlooks Lake Elsinore in Southern California in the late 80's. There was a fire that started at the base of the hill, but with winds, it was moving up the hill quickly. I was working out of town when my wife called to tell me. She asked "What should I grab"?
She had a bit more time than this fire, but still was in a panic. I told her to grab our filing cabinet, small fire safe with documents, top drawer from my desk, guns, and anything that she held dear. Other than that, it would have to be left behind.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

Photos and more photos. That is real proof.
The fires can move way faster then you can run. Just be safe.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
I was at work at 3 pm when the Woolsey Fire was first reported as a minor local event 10 miles away, expected to be out out shortly. By 8 pm they were ordering evacuation areas all they way to the coast, almost 20 miles away. There was little or no warning to allow anything more than “10 minutes to grab kids, pets, valuables and be GONE!” And this was in the dark, power out in many areas, and roads closing fast. So other than having things like important papers and photos boxed and ready to go, there is no “preparing.”


I drove through there when it started and it was a small fire, just a small hillside and the firemen where just watching it. This "let see what it does" attitude and response has to stop. It was a small fire driven by strong winds. Had they used ALL their resources immediately, this would have stopped quick.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

Rains came Wednesday, we are Thankful.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

Glad to hear this ach60, I'm a few more years from moving back to my beloved native California but I'll have to do a lot more research on location. Is anyone building dome homes which are underground and above ground in CA can they be any safer during a fire?
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ach60 wrote:
Rains came Wednesday, we are Thankful.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
I've seen several ACVWs burned in the rubble.

A victim of the Hill fire in Ventura Co.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

This will blow your minds, construction companies leave these unattended overnight here.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

What's the worry? There isn't much left to burn.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: California fires Reply with quote

Mark Evans wrote:
What's the worry? There isn't much left to burn.

Barely visible in the second pic is the tree line that hasn't been cleared.
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