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Getting more from a 1600 single port.
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Tugmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

My 66 has a reman 1600 single port. 30 pict 1 carb, 305t distributer, stock exhaust. I runs good but I would like a little more performance. I live in the mountains of central California. My car is fine on the flat ground but really falls on its face on the hills.
Iíve pulled the plugs and theyíre burning clean. Iím going to do a compression check to verify the condition of the rings and valves.
Iím not a vw expert by any means. What would be some good mods to increase the performance? Better flowing exhaust? dual carbs? Ratio rockers?
I realize with a single port Iím already starting at the bottom of the barrel.
Thanks, Todd
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Krochus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Turbocharge it.

I have a stock single port making so much torque through the 30pict 3 carb I had to go to a 4 puck clutch disc because the engine could overpower the clutch in 4th gear at anything over 3000 rpm. In a 1400lb rail!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

As far as normal aspiration goes a lot can be done from making it a 74mm stroke to just adding 88mm slip in p&c's and a W-100 cam and dual Kadrons or something else: 1641 s.p. carb setup
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=682243&highlight=flow

Brian
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

It really depends on what your realistic budget is.

My personal advice is leave it alone and drive it. I won't waste my time and money on a SP engine. Get a dual port 1600 and build to whatever you can afford, then sell the SP engine.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

I'm reading behind the lines, here, but i get the feeling you want to know about external add-ons you dont need to open the engine case to install...yes?

If you're willing to flycut the heads a little, and maybe work on the cylinders to get a good squish, with twin 34s, an exhaust, a little clean- up and valve job on the heads, a good 1 3/8 header, you would see at least 20% extra power.

The rockers can be a good idea, if you've done head work, but go do it right is quite a hassle, new pushrod length, etc...but if you bring the cylinders in to the block or flycut lots, you'll probably need to do that anyways.

But all that is a lot of buck$ for not that much bang. With a dual- port, a bit more investment,
(splitting the case) you could quite easily double your horses, as suggested above by vwracerdave. That plan is sound.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

First step is 1:1.25 rockers, more open endpipes (I have TDE's with 28mm int ō instead of 22mm ō original) for better breathing, and then double ICT's. If you want more, you must open the engine.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

What elevation are you running at? I have a 1.6liter single port running at 6500 feet. Pull most grades 6% at 50 mph. I mean it is what it is.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

So much has been written over the last 50 years and there are proven combinations no guesswork. Why not start with whatís already been shown to work? Iíd start with reading Bill Fisherís book ď How to Hotrod VW EnginesĒ with commentary by Gene Berg. Yes there have been advances in technology and materials since 1970 but the fundamentals never change. There are certain combinations of factory parts which are affordable and work well together.

If you are willing to balance, blueprint and do some cylinder head work you can unlock free horsepower. You could also look at stickies at performance forum. There youíll find countless engine build combos that people have already done. Why not use a known recipe? Damn it Iím repeating myself. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Here's a thread from a guy that got some spectacular power out of a single port back in 2007. It was cheap too. Mo Looker
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=108808&hilit=single+port
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Krochus wrote:
Turbocharge it.

I have a stock single port making so much torque through the 30pict 3 carb I had to go to a 4 puck clutch disc because the engine could overpower the clutch in 4th gear at anything over 3000 rpm. In a 1400lb rail!


x2

Keep in mind that with more performance you'll have more (possible) problems. You can only get so much out of simple bolt-ons. The best way to learn would be headfirst.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Supercharging or turbocharging a sgl port almost always give good bang for the buck. Especially when living at altitude. If you have a little skills in fabrication it does not have to be that expensive. Just do your homework.

If you feel that is ovewrshooting your desires or skills i can tell you this:
A stock 1600 sgl port puts out just shy of 50 hp (din) at the flywheel, at sea level.
Adding a better exhaust, a set of ICTīs, 32/34 mm Solex or Kads along with a proper distributor. (Peronally I like Solex or Kads best, but the Solex can be a little troublesome to dial in. The Kads are easier.) Such an engine typically makes 60 hp, but the torque increase is rougly 20% across the board with the most gain from 2800 & up. 20% is definitely notice abe and will make your driving experience better. Adding 1,25 rockers on intake alone will increase usable torque another 2-3% plus a couple of hp in the midrange.

This can all be done without taking the engine itself apart.
Whether that is enough for you is the real question.
T
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
It really depends on what your realistic budget is.

My personal advice is leave it alone and drive it. I won't waste my time and money on a SP engine. Get a dual port 1600 and build to whatever you can afford, then sell the SP engine.

I think this is the best overall answer. Especially if you don't have another vehicle for transportation as the engine swap can be done in a day.

Back in 1976 I bought a used 1600cc SP engine and rebuilt it to 1835cc dual port, it has plenty of power for such hills. I use single Weber carb, German 009, quiet exhaust, stock camshaft, stock crankshaft, stock DP heads except opened for the larger cylinders, stock F&S 3-arm pressure plate and disc, stock transmission, Maxi2 pump/filter, external oil cooler.

I haven't had this engine apart in 32 years either, so much for heat issues and unreliability of 1835cc, and I'm in Arizona desert.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Simple add on's would be High Ratio Rockers , Advance curve and a Header exhaust. You could put a small turbo (insta boost) Laughing on it and limit boost to about 7 pounds which is realitively easy. The rule of thumb is you get 10hp for every pound of boost. That would get you extra low range power to keep the RPM's down. Look into using a (Mod ring) for a blow through turbo set up.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Like others have said you could spend a lot of time and cash modifying a lot of things and come out with power about equal to a 1600 DP or...

Put a nice little hair dryer on it and double your torque and HP at a lower rpm than you are running now for about 1\3 of the cost of going the other route.
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Tugmaster
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PostPosted: Yesterday 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Wow!lots of good info. Thank you very much. I drive all back roads. Never over 60mph. Iím primarily looking for a little more power on the hills. I was thinking of dual carbs and a better flowing exhaust.
I may just live with what I have for now or look for a decent DP. Thanks again!
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PostPosted: Yesterday 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
It really depends on what your realistic budget is.

My personal advice is leave it alone and drive it. I won't waste my time and money on a SP engine. Get a dual port 1600 and build to whatever you can afford, then sell the SP engine.


I wonder what they did before dual ports became available. Oh wait there is a vintage speed forum here. Very Happy
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Yesterday 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
vwracerdave wrote:
It really depends on what your realistic budget is.

My personal advice is leave it alone and drive it. I won't waste my time and money on a SP engine. Get a dual port 1600 and build to whatever you can afford, then sell the SP engine.


I wonder what they did before dual ports became available. Oh wait there is a vintage speed forum here.


That is true but in todays parts it is much cheaper to go dual port than to mess with the nostalgia of the SP stuff.
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Krochus
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PostPosted: Yesterday 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
Zundfolge1432 wrote:
vwracerdave wrote:
It really depends on what your realistic budget is.

My personal advice is leave it alone and drive it. I won't waste my time and money on a SP engine. Get a dual port 1600 and build to whatever you can afford, then sell the SP engine.


I wonder what they did before dual ports became available. Oh wait there is a vintage speed forum here.


That is true but in todays parts it is much cheaper to go dual port than to mess with the nostalgia of the SP stuff.


But as mentioned above. If you boost it everything else can remain stock and it will absolutely throat stomp all but the wildest dual port n/a below 2000cc builds.

Positive manifold pressure fixes the one thing even spicy NA builds lack. Low and midrange torque. 6 psi at 2800rpm up will make an otherwise stock single port FELL way way faster and more responsive than 120NA hp that you donít get most of till 4000 rpm plus.
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PostPosted: Yesterday 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Getting more from a 1600 single port. Reply with quote

Our little secret is safe with these guys Krochus! Wink Very Happy
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