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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1758
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 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: auto trans |
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| wanted to see whos run a vw auto trans and whatcha thought about it. i have an 010 and 003 and thought about putting one in a rail |
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Bashr52
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:52 am Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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What are you plans with the car? Lots of moving parts and extra components needed to make a VW auto work. Are you talking full auto or an autostick?
If it's a street car, auto may work ok, off-road I would not do anything but a manual. |
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Mr. Unpopular
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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Look up Jeff Fields at Transaxle Engineering. He's the expert on the VW 010 automatics and especially their use in high HP off-road cars. He even makes a custom differential that bolts to the 010 transmission. The differential uses a sprint car ring and pinion and can withstand 500hp in an off-road car.
You can even call him and talk with him, but he is a busy guy, so please don't waste his time.
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"In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV |
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vwfreek61
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2004
Posts: 350
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Bashr52 wrote: |
What are you plans with the car? Lots of moving parts and extra components needed to make a VW auto work. Are you talking full auto or an autostick?
If it's a street car, auto may work ok, off-road I would not do anything but a manual. |
There really aren't any more extra parts needed to make an auto work...one less pedal, and the shifter can be mounted anywhere.
003 or 010 refers to full automatic, not autostick.
The 010 would probably be the better choice for off road. It would have more parts available for repair or rebuild since it was used up until about '92. You can also use parts from the Audi 5000 transmission to beef it up. There are quite a few threads in the Vanagon forum for this. Peloquin also makes a limited slip differential for the Vanagon 010.
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Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:47 am Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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If you are going to be running larger HP and or running hard, you want to go with the 010. Its just stronger all the way around. However are you sure that its a 010. The buses actually used a 003 trans with a different differential section until 1975. They came out with the 010 in 1976. Also, you definitely want to run the 010 torque converter, it has a higher stall speed. In fact if you have the funds, and there is a torque converter shop in your area, I would check with them to see if they could mod it to get a higher stall speed. If you look at the links in my signature area, you can see that I have played a little with the auto.
Unpopular is right, Jeff is an expert on these things, and he is busy and keeps his secrets tightly guarded. He let me in on a few, but I had to promise not to spill the beans on line. I have a Type 4 engine on my 003, and have modded it so that it doesn't upshift at WO until 5,500 RPM. I am also running the 010 TC, and the stall speed is still a little lower then I would like.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1758
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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thanks for the info. the stampings on the cases have 010 on one and 003 on the other. i have a buddy at a trans sbop so i could get them rebuilt, they probably dont know enough about them to "build" them though. both have converters and i have one flywheel from type 3 so i could use a bug engine, if i go this route itd be a stroker.
any idea what stall the 010 is? |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1758
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| Sorry it took me so long, I had to find my bus Bentley. Its about 1900rpm. |
cool, thanks for looking for it |
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Slow 1200
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Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 2105
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:48 am Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Type 3 and 4 (don't know about bus ones) 003s take reverse from second gear, so it's super high ratio, not great if you get stuck or want to back up a hill |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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Mr. Unpopular
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Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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Either way, all of the performance parts are for the 010, so it's still the best option by far.
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"In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:23 am Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Mr. Unpopular wrote: |
| Either way, all of the performance parts are for the 010, so it's still the best option by far. |
As I mentioned previously, I had talked with Jeff, and yes if you are going to take the trans to the extreme, the 010 is the best place to start. However, a good 003 can handle around 200 hp. Here is one of his custom units, but if you look closely, the trans itself is 003 based.
It really boils down to the thickness of your wallet, and what you really plan on using the car for.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Slow 1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 2105
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
I don't know if that's quite true, this is the info I got.
You should also get torque multiplication through the TC, so I don't think it be that bad unless you were in a "heavy" vehicle. |
you are right, it's not exacty true, for a Type 3 the ratios are as follows
1st: 2.65
2nd: 1.59
3rd: 1.0
Reverse: 1.8
so, not the same as second but way longer than 1st, I can atest that a stock auto type 3 is totally gutless in reverse  |
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Mr. Unpopular
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Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
As I mentioned previously, I had talked with Jeff, and yes if you are going to take the trans to the extreme, the 010 is the best place to start. However, a good 003 can handle around 200 hp. Here is one of his custom units, but if you look closely, the trans itself is 003 based.
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I'm almost positive that's an 010.
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"In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV |
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PapaG
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2003
Posts: 16
Location: Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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I am looking at using a 003 in a buggy. Sorta EMPI 1. Slide in floor pan with a bed. My brother has a Lymphedema and his one leg is very swollen.
Mostly for something to get around the farm and might be street legal. A better Golf Cart. Kawasaki Mule type thing.
Thoughts?
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69 Fastback, 68 choptopped Squareback, 87 Syncro Vanagon and more VW in a yard to make any Red Neck Jealous |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3844
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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 Would this not work in a street Bus, 1964, with IRS already in?
I suspect there might be some hackery involved up in the nosecone area, those trannies look long.
But what about the 934 CVs, are those bigger than 930 CVs? More clearancing required there.
And, so all of Jeff's autos are actually semi-autos, yeah? In other words, still shifting going on?
It sure sounds like a cool concept, putting a near-bullet proof auto in a street Bus.
?Thoughts? |
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5410
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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934 cv joints are significantly larger than 930s. 20mm larger in diameter to be specific... serious racing only stuff if you ask me.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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PapaG
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2003
Posts: 16
Location: Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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003 was used in type 3's and some Audi's It is a Borge Warner Transmission. Everything is available to rebuild one. I had a watercoolded Vanagon. Descent transmission
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69 Fastback, 68 choptopped Squareback, 87 Syncro Vanagon and more VW in a yard to make any Red Neck Jealous |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3844
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: auto trans |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
| 934 cv joints are significantly larger than 930s. 20mm larger in diameter to be specific... serious racing only stuff if you ask me. |
| PapaG wrote: |
| 003 was used in type 3's and some Audi's It is a Borge Warner Transmission. Everything is available to rebuild one. I had a watercoolded Vanagon. Descent transmission. |
Thanks guys...after reading several 003 threads around here, it does look like that would be the tranny for my application. Unfortunately for me, the only way I'd try it is if it was easily reversible, and it's not...I just can't bring myself to cut up the frame horns on my Bus. I guess if my Bus was a commuter, there would be more impetus to do it, 'cuz clutching for an hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic stinks, but it's by no stretch a commuter vehicle. |
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