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tsimek2
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: High Point, NC
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 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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I am a newbie. I am completely rebuilding a 65 type 2 engine.
I have bought new bearing (crank and cam), new crank shaft, new connecting rods and rod bearings.
Everything spins when the case is split. Everything seems to fit fine.
When I put the cases together the crankshaft doesn't want to turn.
Any Ideas?? |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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Swap the old bearings in and see what happens.
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tsimek2
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: High Point, NC
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| Swap the old bearings in and see what happens. |
Even thought I put a new crank shaft in? When I opened up the case originally the crank shaft was completely sheared.
I'll have to find them, but I'll replace them.
Thank you. |
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FeelthySanchez
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Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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ˇBienvenido a la Samba!
A broken crank will thrash the main saddles somewhat, but an align-bore usually cleans it up. Make sure the bearing set shows the correct oversize.
Suggest tearing it open, measure all the main journals & bearings, then report back here.
Might also have an unseated #1 main bearing - look for damage on it's locating pin hole. This kinda goof will lock them up every time:
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Last edited by FeelthySanchez on Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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tsimek2
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: High Point, NC
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| FeelthySanchez wrote: |
ˇBienvenido a la Samba!
Tear it open, measure all the journals & bearings & report back here.
Might also have a misaligned #1 main bearing - look for damage on it's locating pin hole:
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I'll do that. It's going to be tough to do it today as I'm in the middle of a snow storm in NC. I will take the measurements.
Thank you |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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As mentioned above one of the things that occurs most is bearing shell missed the indexing pin and you crushed the bearing on pin during case assembly ... If bearing is crushed, its toast.....
Usually what I do is before setting crank, is set the bearing separate and being sure its seated properly in saddle I mark bearing shell at case line either with felt marker or slight scribe line from sharp blade...IF when setting crank, you do not see the scribe line set properly on case half it means bearing/pin combination is not set properly....
Dale
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RWK
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Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1348
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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New or reground crank? either way check for straightness had a reground crank once that was bent a little, just enough to prevent easy turning when case bolted together.
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Cusser
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oprn
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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The most common rooky mistake is the locating pin one already mentioned.
However it would be rare in my limited experience for a case to be reusable that has had a crankshaft break in it. Check and measure that case every way to Sunday! |
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rugblaster
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Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 1170
Location: San Angelo, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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I wouldn't attempt a rebuild without a known quality line bored used case (rare these days) or a known quality new case. The bearing dowels, crank, bearings themselves etc, should be 100% also. But, start with the case. Otherwise, as Jerry Jeff Walker said, you are "just pissin' in the wind."
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Rome
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9641
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| Quote: |
| Usually what I do is before setting crank, is set the bearing separate and being sure its seated properly in saddle I mark bearing shell at case line either with felt marker or slight scribe line from sharp blade...IF when setting crank, you do not see the scribe line set properly on case half it means bearing/pin combination is not set properly.... |
This method is very easy and effective to notice during assembly.
I've also found that a single dowel pin was slightly too long, so that its tip would press against the inner end of the dowel pin hole in the main bearing slightly. The crank would spin fine when the case was open, but the added pressure of the longer pin would cause a pinch of the bearing against the crank journal and stop the crank from spinning when the case was bolted together and torqued. Took some trial and error to find the actual cause. To fix that, I think I just gripped the dowel pin with vise grips and held the tip to the side of the bench grinder wheel to shorten it about a millimeter.
Ever since then, I take the sliding shaft end of a dial caliper, hold it next to the pin in the case to get the exposed height of the pin, then hold the shaft end into the bearing hole. If the caliper shaft still has some clearance, the dowel pin fit is fine. |
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nsracing
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Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9462
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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Reasons for crankshaft not spinning = Pinched bearing/s, or the linebore was too tight, wrong bearings. Unlikely the crank was wrong dimension. Or...the camshaft gear was too big. Or you put the wrong size rod bearings. Or too tight or bottomed out end play.
Now, which one do you think you did? |
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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| nsracing wrote: |
Reasons for crankshaft not spinning = Pinched bearing/s, or the linebore was too tight, wrong bearings. Unlikely the crank was wrong dimension. Or...the camshaft gear was too big. Or you put the wrong size rod bearings. Or too tight or bottomed out end play.
Now, which one do you think you did? |
Or a bent crank. Yes, highly unlikely, new crank, but stranger things have happened, and a lot can happen between China and you.
My money is on the case, with the broken crank and all... |
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VW_Jimbo 
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9955
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
As mentioned above one of the things that occurs most is bearing shell missed the indexing pin and you crushed the bearing on pin during case assembly ... If bearing is crushed, its toast.....
Usually what I do is before setting crank, is set the bearing separate and being sure its seated properly in saddle I mark bearing shell at case line either with felt marker or slight scribe line from sharp blade...IF when setting crank, you do not see the scribe line set properly on case half it means bearing/pin combination is not set properly....
Dale |
^^^
Do this during the assembly, then also spin the crank as you tighten up the nuts. I tighten the 6 mains and turn the crank during each one at each level of tigthness. Same goes for the 8mm studs and bolts on the exterior case flange.
If at anytime it gets tight, back up and figure out what is happening.
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| FreeBug wrote: |
| nsracing wrote: |
Reasons for crankshaft not spinning = Pinched bearing/s, or the linebore was too tight, wrong bearings. Unlikely the crank was wrong dimension. Or...the camshaft gear was too big. Or you put the wrong size rod bearings. Or too tight or bottomed out end play.
Now, which one do you think you did? |
Or a bent crank. Yes, highly unlikely, new crank, but stranger things have happened, and a lot can happen between China and you.
My money is on the case, with the broken crank and all... |
The original crank broke and the current new crank spins on one half but not when the case is together? Then the most likely explanation is that the case twisted causing the bore to be slightly misaligned. Try to install the new cam and cam bearings. If it doesn't turn or is very difficult, then this is it. You will need to have the case align bored(sometimes the same size works but you may have to go up a size) and the cam bore needs to be honed. This is very common when the crank breaks.
Also, double check to make sure the case alignments pins on the corners of the case didn't fall out. If they did, it will have the same effect.
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jimmyhoffa
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Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1056
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
The original crank broke and the current new crank spins on one half but not when the case is together? Then the most likely explanation is that the case twisted causing the bore to be slightly misaligned. Try to install the new cam and cam bearings. If it doesn't turn or is very difficult, then this is it. You will need to have the case align bored(sometimes the same size works but you may have to go up a size) and the cam bore needs to be honed. This is very common when the crank breaks.
Also, double check to make sure the case alignments pins on the corners of the case didn't fall out. If they did, it will have the same effect. |
To add to Roy's idea about the same size re-align bore, you'd be wise to marker up/Dychem Blue the main bearing bores if you want to try to get away with the same size, just to make sure you aren't cutting heavy on one side of the bore and making an oval hole for one of your mains.
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rugblaster
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Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 1170
Location: San Angelo, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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It's a good idea to back the bar up and run it through twice. Your second pass always takes a whisp off. Possibly from altering the feed path.
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Type 5 Joe
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Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1795
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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Removing and reinstalling an align-bore tool will never cut perfectly on the same center as the original cut.
The original poster said he purchased a new crankshaft... Was it a rebuilt (re-ground) crank?
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rugblaster
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Posts: 1170
Location: San Angelo, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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You don't remove and reinstall it, you just pull the bar back and cut again.
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'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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tsimek2
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2017
Posts: 27
Location: High Point, NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Crankshaft doesn't turn. |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
As mentioned above one of the things that occurs most is bearing shell missed the indexing pin and you crushed the bearing on pin during case assembly ... If bearing is crushed, its toast.....
Usually what I do is before setting crank, is set the bearing separate and being sure its seated properly in saddle I mark bearing shell at case line either with felt marker or slight scribe line from sharp blade...IF when setting crank, you do not see the scribe line set properly on case half it means bearing/pin combination is not set properly....
Dale |
I'm pretty sure I misaligned it. That's a good tip for round 2 |
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