Low beam headlight goes off when high beam activated...

[bself]

I just finished installing new round headlights on my 87 vanagon. Install was relatively simple but I'm left with the drivers side low beam going dim when I activate the high beams. Could this be a bulb issue as I've read on here about the dual filaments in the low beam H4's? A high power headlight kit was installed by the PO and didn't have this issue with the rectangles.

Anyone else experience this? Any help/guidance would be appreciated.

Brad
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1987 VW Vanagon Westfalia SBX EJ25

[dhaavers]

I suspect the wiring to the high beam filament on that DS outside bulb.

Clean/new connectors should clear things up...

- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[Butcher]

The ground wire is probably NFG. A good voltage drop test would shine the light on your problem.

[dhaavers]

Although a bad ground wire to high beams would show up as BOTH inner & outer high beams dim...just sayin...

- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[kamzcab86]

[benandmj]

As with all Vanagon issues, try a new ignition switch.
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85 Westfalia Weekender
91 Syncro Westy

[DuncanS]

Dave has to be correct. Pull the light plug, clean everything and reinstall with dielectric grease. If still no good, then the wire to the outside high beam has to be bad at some point. Are the lights relayed? THAT IS A MUST unless you own stock in the headlight switch company.

[DuncanS]

In the end, I was able to get the cover off the dimer switch. HOWEVER I discovered too late that there are actually three little locking tabs that need to be pried off gently to get the cover off. One is hidden by the plug immediately under the steering column. I should have pulled the plug first as that one broke, but it doesn't seem to hurt the reassembly. Also the "staple" that I mentioned that holds the cruise control wires actually engages in a part of the cover and may not need to be removed. Glad I did because then the cover is much freer and easier to deal with. Cleaned all the contact surfaces with 600 emery folded over a coffee stirring stick, wiped the residue away with a damp gasoline rag. Then a bit of dielectric grease and everything now works properly. When putting the cover on, it's necessary to hold it at about a 45º angle and slide it in from the side to make sure that the tab on the lever which lifts the switch parts is properly engaged. You can't just stick it in place without getting that mechanical connection which is what activates the switch. Thank you all.
P.S. Make sure that you don't drop the fork shaped plastic piece, as I did, so the highs wouldn't stay on. It's tiny and probably will go to the floor when you remove the cover with it's related bits.

Merry Christmas

[DanHoug]

i'm going to issue a SWAG and say that you have the headlight wiring mixed up so that you are grounding one of the filaments and applying power thru the ground connector for filament common. on low beam, current is flowing in series thru BOTH filaments, hence reduced brightness.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[Mi.van]

I’m having a similar issue. Po had relay upgrade wired wrong along with several other bad wiring jobs. So I removed that stuff. Put things back together with clean grounds the right bulbs new ignition switch. Everything the way it was originally. Head light works but when a switch to hi left side goes off and right side works both low and high. Only thing not replaced was hibeam/ turn signal switch on tree. Could that be the culprit?

As for original poster. Clean and separate grounds behind fuse panel and put new fuses in and maybe switch relays that upgrade lights to check for possible variation

[DuncanS]

A little hard to decipher. "Everying the way it was originally." Does that mean OEM wiring? Or does it mean you put the relay upgrade back the way it was from the PO, but with cleaned up connections? "Also Head light works"--singular or plural? It sounds like the wires that run from the driver's side to the passenger in the enclosed sleeve which is cable tied to the tin just behind the grill somehow have been rewired; if in fact you are getting all three filaments energized at once (on the passenger side). How do you know that the right side has both high and low at the same time? Are you confusing the high beam filament in the outside light with the low filament? It can be pretty hard to tell which one is activated. Remember that when on low, the only filament energized is the single outside headlight low beam. One filament per side. When you switch to high beam, you get the high beam filament of the outside headlight (but the low beam filament should now be switched off) AND the high beam filament on the inside bulb. Thus two filaments per side, but not the same filament you had on low beam on the outside light before.

[Mi.van]

Thank you for the response. I’m not sure about individual filaments. I’ll have a closer look. By “put back to original” I mean that I took out the relays. One was melted and none of the lights worked. Speaking only hi low. All markers and signal,brake, reverse all work as they should.

So to clarify the low beams work as they should. (Will check and verify filaments) but for now seemingly work and when I switch to hi beams left goes out and both lights light up on right high and low. ( also will check and verify filaments)

My question is still. Is it possible that the high beam switch could produce this affect? I have been through the Bentley wiring diagram and the wiring seems pretty straight foreword. Two switches,four lights

What could cause right to go out and left to both work?
Thank you again. I’m new to here and will work to better state issues.

86 tin top with someone new to love it back to glory

[crazyvwvanman]

There are 4 fuses for the headlights.
If fuse #10 was bad it would do what you describe.
Fuses are numbered starting on the left with #1.

(86-91 vans, fuses 9,10,21,22 for headlights)

Mark

[Mi.van]

Problem resolved: thank you DuncanS.
I closely went through it all again and I should of stated that fuse 10 kept blowing??
I couldn’t find a cause but I have restored other po wiring anomalies and it has seemingly remedied the problem. Fuse no longer blows and all lights work as should although be it kind of dim.

Now I will put the relay kit in for lights and hard start so as to avoid the ignition switch fail. I am traveling with a spare. If I avoid using hibeams will I be buying time or by driving mainly in the light hours w/o lights period??

Any tips on kits ie make at home for way less

[bself]

Thanks for the discussion everyone. More than likely just a loose connection at the lights with the the new headlight plugs. Or I used too much dielectric grease. I pulled everything out today, unplugged the connections, wiped things down, and replugged everything back in. I also switched the low beam bulb to the opposite side to see if my original issue was simply a bad filament in the new bulb. The bulb wasn't bad and at first, we had success...

...then I drove around the block and ended up back at the house with the passenger side lights dark w/ high beams activated (low beam still worked fine although that fact didn't click at first)...

...so after testing for power at the plug connections and ruling just about everything else out, I remembered Mark's comment re: fuses so I checked there and sure enough, fuse #9 was blown. Quickly replaced that and we're now back in business. The blown fuse has me scratching my head though. Maybe it was just an old tired fuse as it's at least as old as I've owned the van but if I understand correctly, a 10amp fuse should be more than enough to cover a 55w H3 bulb. Right?

Also, the Van Cafe SA Grill kit, bought a couple weeks ago, came with the high power upgrade kit which I have yet to install (and not sure I will). As mentioned above, the previous owner (pre-2004) of my van upgraded the headlight wiring w/ relays using THIS wiring diagram from Allistair Bell. I'm not sure where I would begin trying to undo this to install the kit from Van Cafe.

Brad
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1987 VW Vanagon Westfalia SBX EJ25

[DuncanS]

Here was the strategy.:
Reduce the circuitous (pun intended) circuit path to the Sylvania Silver Stars replacements for the OEM headlights and bypass the various switches that had been carrying heavy loads and were prone to failure. A heavy duty wire direct, hot-all-the-time, (30 on the Bentley wiring diagram) to a pair of relays--one for the low beams and one for the high. The relays would be triggered by the power normally sent to the head lights through the instrument cluster headlight switch and steering column dimmer switch.

Tactics:
I ran a # 8 wire directly from the 30 red lead that goes from the battery to the fuse and relay panel. Installed a KUMEED Circuit Breaker Trolling Motor Auto Car Marine Inline Fuse Inverter (60A) Price: $12.99 in line with this and ran the #8 wire through a grommeted hole in the tin behind the driver's side headlight. The #8 wire is far bigger than needed and so is the fuse, but I wanted as little resistance as possible. This wire feeds ALL the headlights through the relays and the normal fuses in the OEM panel become redundant except for protecting the relay triggering. Since the relays draw far less than the headlight filaments, the OEM switches will be able to handle the load with little risk of failure. This hot lead goes to both relays and a pair of new stranded #12 wire was led to the passenger's side. The 60 amp fuse protects a live wire from fires and gives enough protection for additional lights such as fog or off road should they get added at a later date. The original high and low beam wires were cut behind the headlights and fitted to the relay coils. Thus should a fuse blow for just one of them it would be either the number 10 for the high beam relay or number 21 for the low beam relay.

Relays area 5 Pack - Auto 30/40 AMP Relay Harness Spdt 12V Bosch ($13) so I had extras in case of failure on the road. The relays are behind the driver's side head lights and double encased in plastic bags with the wires coming out the bottom so water can't collect. I've had this system for over 5 years and there have been zero problems with either the relays or wiring.

Results: No switch or relay issues AND the headlights were noticeably brighter.

[DuncanS]

bself--I'm worried that some of the PO work may be causing this problem. I've had a bunch of T3's and never had a headlight fuse blow. However, you may have had a weak fuse and will be OK. If it blows again, then you will need to get out the Bentley, your multi meter and start checking everything to make sure there isn't something squirrely. The easiest way to do this is to get some alligator clips with an 8' length of wire so you can clip onto the various parts up front while checking inside. It's possible that the high beam wire that runs through a plastic chase right behind the grill has been compromised. It is white/black. That would be the first place I would try.

[bself]

[DuncanS]

The whole point of a fuse is to protect the vehicle from an electrical fire. If you use an oversize fuse and get a direct short, it will blow and all the energy that could catch the wire insulation or any other combustible material will be eliminated. I once was having ignition switch issues and had the plastic steering column trim piece off. I noticed the dreaded smell and then saw flames coming up around the switch and molten globs of burning insulation were dripping onto to my pants. A good thing I had cords on and not shorts.

There is the remote possibility that if you have a "leak" that the lesser fuse would have failed and stopped the current flow whereas the larger one might melt something and degrade the wire, but not pass enough current to ignite a fire.
The 10 amp fuses were fine with OEM lights, but if you upgrade to higher wattages then you will need a larger fuse. BUT German engineers didn't want to spend any extra on wire and so there are closely organized according to expected current flow. Meaning, if you up grade with a larger current flow, you probably need to up size the wire as well. If you look at what the European cross section mm designation converts to in AWG, they all look too skinny in my book. I ALWAYS go up a size when replacing something and use marine grade wire which has far better insulation and each one of the strands are separately tinned to eliminate corrosion.

[Mi.van]

https://sites.google.com/site/vanagonheadlightrelays/headlight-relays

Here is a couple of upgrade kits offered. Read the details because there are different kits with different instructions for different years. It may help clear up what po did and if it was done right. Also check out the hard start section may help prevent future failure. Hope this helps my peeps