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DurocShark
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 6624
Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| jerseyboy wrote: |
Air conditioning  now there's an idea. Maybe put one of those camping trailer roof-mounted ones on the top o' the westy. |
If you've got a Type 4 engine I've got a complete rig... 
I've been debating what to do with it. I picked it up a couple weeks ago, but looking at how involved it really is I'm thinking I don't want it.
_________________
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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jerseyboy
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 256
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
Hey Jerseyboy. Love the paint job. My kids wanted me to paint mine like that, but I'm a monochromatic sheep instead.  |
Actually the PO painted it like this because he said the original paint was no good. Personally I would paint it back to it's original red but the GF loves it as it is.
| DurocShark wrote: |
| jerseyboy wrote: |
Air conditioning now there's an idea. Maybe put one of those camping trailer roof-mounted ones on the top o' the westy. |
If you've got a Type 4 engine I've got a complete rig...
I've been debating what to do with it. I picked it up a couple weeks ago, but looking at how involved it really is I'm thinking I don't want it. |
It's a Type 1 engine, it's a '71. Thanks for the offer though. |
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AquaBus!
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: Tires and collisions |
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| greatlord wrote: |
| just my $.02 don't do the nose mount, surest thing in an acident is that that tires gonna bend the nose in on your legs, our legs are enough danger already no need to make it worse. |
Having been in a front end colision in a 70 bus with a front tire mount, I can tell you what DID happen:
The tire exploded, ripped the mount assembly off, flew in the air and rolled down the street.
The bus nose was damaged but the car drove home from the accident.
I firmoy believe that having the tire there saved my knees and the car by absorbing a lot of the impact force. Been there done that.
I always like to have a tire up there.
_________________
71 Camper- Project phase
71 kombi "Shenanigawagen"
... i remember the days when a bus cost two dollars and you had to push it uphill both ways... |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Tires and collisions |
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| AquaBus! wrote: |
| greatlord wrote: |
| just my $.02 don't do the nose mount, surest thing in an acident is that that tires gonna bend the nose in on your legs, our legs are enough danger already no need to make it worse. |
Having been in a front end colision in a 70 bus with a front tire mount, I can tell you what DID happen:
The tire exploded, ripped the mount assembly off, flew in the air and rolled down the street.
The bus nose was damaged but the car drove home from the accident.
I firmoy believe that having the tire there saved my knees and the car by absorbing a lot of the impact force. Been there done that.
I always like to have a tire up there. |
Another religious argument, but I really don't agree with the "Muir" idea that the spare up front makes things safer. It's not a massive object like a 500-pound Chevy engine block!
The spare has very low mass and is very stiff, so the only thing it really does is provide a object to intrude into the passenger bay through the relatively weak front skin.
VW designed crash resistance into the baywindow structure, but the spare tire was not part of that design. At best it is a SWAG that it improves crash safety.
Aesthetically, I have seen few buses with a front spare that did not have a dent in the metal behind it. Somehow, the spare looks like a nice soft cushion to the "park by Braille" folks.
George |
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jerseyboy
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 256
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| DurocShark wrote: |
| jerseyboy wrote: |
Any update on those bumper mounts? My GF really, really wants to mount the spare tire on the front but I won't do it if it's going to cause damage to the front. |
I looked and the only pic I can find is in the Just Kampers paper catalog.
Keep in mind that it's still attached to the nose, just some of the weight is on the bumper. So a distorted nose is still possible, and certain if in an accident.
Maybe if you call (or email) Just Kampers they'll send you a pic? |
Do you have any experience with ordering from JK? I know they're in the UK so easy are international orders and cost? The price is 19.95 which I'm assuming is pounds stirling, which makes it around $40 for the bracket not including shipping. Is this worth it when I have a nose mount I pulled off a junker? |
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DurocShark
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 6624
Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered some of those bus mugs just to try them out.
The mugs are mealmine (plastic) and they stuck two of 'em in a padded envelope and shipped. Bleh.
However, they arrived quickly and were undamaged.
_________________
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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jerseyboy
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 256
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| DurocShark wrote: |
I ordered some of those bus mugs just to try them out.
The mugs are mealmine (plastic) and they stuck two of 'em in a padded envelope and shipped. Bleh.
However, they arrived quickly and were undamaged. |
But what about the exchange rate? |
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DurocShark
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 6624
Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jerseyboy wrote: |
| DurocShark wrote: |
I ordered some of those bus mugs just to try them out.
The mugs are mealmine (plastic) and they stuck two of 'em in a padded envelope and shipped. Bleh.
However, they arrived quickly and were undamaged. |
But what about the exchange rate? |
It is what it is. *shrug*
You'll probably spend $50 or so total for that mount.
_________________
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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AquaBus!
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Tires and collisions |
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| GeorgeL wrote: |
| AquaBus! wrote: |
| greatlord wrote: |
| just my $.02 don't do the nose mount, surest thing in an acident is that that tires gonna bend the nose in on your legs, our legs are enough danger already no need to make it worse. |
Having been in a front end colision in a 70 bus with a front tire mount, I can tell you what DID happen:
The tire exploded, ripped the mount assembly off, flew in the air and rolled down the street.
The bus nose was damaged but the car drove home from the accident.
I firmoy believe that having the tire there saved my knees and the car by absorbing a lot of the impact force. Been there done that.
I always like to have a tire up there. |
Another religious argument, but I really don't agree with the "Muir" idea that the spare up front makes things safer. It's not a massive object like a 500-pound Chevy engine block!
The spare has very low mass and is very stiff, so the only thing it really does is provide a object to intrude into the passenger bay through the relatively weak front skin.
VW designed crash resistance into the baywindow structure, but the spare tire was not part of that design. At best it is a SWAG that it improves crash safety.
Aesthetically, I have seen few buses with a front spare that did not have a dent in the metal behind it. Somehow, the spare looks like a nice soft cushion to the "park by Braille" folks.
George |
Ill agree it is in essance a religouse arguement, but having seen the evidence from the crash with my own eyes, Id say that Ill say "Praise Jesus and pass the tire mount! I have seen the light brothers and sisters and it says Goodyear on the front..."
Seriously, though i am saying that I looked at the evidence and concluded that;
1) the tire absorbed impact. This is shown by the blown tire/bent rim, also the fact that it shot away from (over the other car) my car. Thats all force, force that didn't go into my car.
2) the tire spread the impact out over a larger area, causing the nose to cave evenly, meaning that i could pull the whole thing out.
3) the tire abosrbed the impact better than my 71 bumper did, and because of the height of the two vehicles probably saved me from injury (ie because the other car was higher than my bumper, I my car would have met nose to side door with the cadilac).
Now that isnt to say that had the impact been different, the tire might not have been effective, but i cannot see how it could have made things worse, more over I am speaking from expierence (ie been there, done that), and I listen to other peoples expierence. You can listen or not as you choose, but dont just write off my expierence as "religous argument". Thanks
_________________
71 Camper- Project phase
71 kombi "Shenanigawagen"
... i remember the days when a bus cost two dollars and you had to push it uphill both ways... |
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Hatchet Face
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 474
Location: Rat's Nest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think if people just drove like they are strapped to the front of the car (or bus), they will be fine... even though you almost ARE strapped to the front of a bus....
I'm thinking of putting an "airbag" in,too. I think if you get in a collision head-on at all in a bus, you are pretty much screwed no matter if there is a tire there or not. So, I'll put the tire there, drive safe, and hope that the other people on the road are driving with caution too...(yeah, right...) |
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Other 1
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 260
Location: SE KS
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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what about reinforcing the rivits from the inside. even it you added larger holes and used bolts and nuts instead. you could put a strip of curved steel on the inside of your bus to dispurse the load and maybe prevent some nose flex. I dunno, but it could work
_________________
"The bus came by and I got on,
That's when it all began,
There was cowboy Neal at the wheel
Of the bus to never ever land." |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Tires and collisions |
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| AquaBus! wrote: |
...Seriously, though i am saying that I looked at the evidence and concluded that;
1) the tire absorbed impact. This is shown by the blown tire/bent rim, also the fact that it shot away from (over the other car) my car. Thats all force, force that didn't go into my car. |
Ever see a tire blow up? There is a _lot_ of energy stored in an inflated tire, enough to blow that tire high in the air without any assistance from a collision. That energy gets added to the energy of a collision if the tire blows. I'd say that you are lucky that the added energy blew the tire away from the bus. It could have just as easily gone through your windshield.
| AquaBus! wrote: |
| You can listen or not as you choose, but dont just write off my expierence as "religous argument". Thanks |
I was referring to the entire topic of putting the spare on the front as a "religious argument", not your specific belief.
George |
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AquaBus!
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Tires and collisions |
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| GeorgeL wrote: |
| AquaBus! wrote: |
...Seriously, though i am saying that I looked at the evidence and concluded that;
1) the tire absorbed impact. This is shown by the blown tire/bent rim, also the fact that it shot away from (over the other car) my car. Thats all force, force that didn't go into my car. |
Ever see a tire blow up? There is a _lot_ of energy stored in an inflated tire, enough to blow that tire high in the air without any assistance from a collision. That energy gets added to the energy of a collision if the tire blows. I'd say that you are lucky that the added energy blew the tire away from the bus. It could have just as easily gone through your windshield.
| AquaBus! wrote: |
| You can listen or not as you choose, but dont just write off my expierence as "religous argument". Thanks |
I was referring to the entire topic of putting the spare on the front as a "religious argument", not your specific belief.
George |
the tire obviosly absorbed impact. I saw the tire, held it in my hands. The rim absorbed impact, I had to replace it.
I also cannot see how a tire hit head on from the bottom could have ended up the windshield.. angle of incident bloa blah blah...
_________________
71 Camper- Project phase
71 kombi "Shenanigawagen"
... i remember the days when a bus cost two dollars and you had to push it uphill both ways... |
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:15 am Post subject: |
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We put the common type of mount on a '70. Used an aluminum plate on the inside with matching hole pattern and self-securing nuts. Then used good quality bolts from the outside. But the other issue-- If the tire isn't in contact with the nose skin it bounces around. That would be bad in the long run. If it is pulling real tight on the nose, that is bad also. We used spacers on the 3 studs to get the tire up just snug to the nose with the nuts tight. A drawback was some clown at a tire shop put it back together without the spacers and with his impact wrench could have ripped the mount off the front. It is somewhat trickey to get it set up just right with no bounce or pull. Then even air pressure (or lack of) makes it nice or not nice. Seemed like the very worst problem that could happen with a crummy mount would be the sucker falling off while your zooming down the road. I wouldn't want to run over the spare- it could be a real disaster.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Tires and collisions |
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| AquaBus! wrote: |
| the tire obviosly absorbed impact. I saw the tire, held it in my hands. The rim absorbed impact, I had to replace it. |
I don't doubt that it was damaged, but nobody can say for sure if a tire will add or subtract from the overall impact of the collision. While certain structures are designed to absorb impact, a tire/wheel is not. In fact, a tire is specifically designed to return impact energy when it returns to its original shape. If you exceed its design limits and it ruptures a lot of excess energy is released, hence the dire warnings that "only professionals should mount tires"
What you have is a single piece of data. The tire may well have helped you in your specific accident, but that does not mean that it will help a majority of the people who heed your advice.
| AquaBus! wrote: |
| I also cannot see how a tire hit head on from the bottom could have ended up the windshield.. angle of incident bloa blah blah... |
It won't always, but there are forseeable impacts that might well launch the thing in the direction of the windshield. All it needs to do is bounce off the other vehicle in the wrong direction.
I think that we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Like I said, it's a religious argument!  |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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scubasteve321
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Front Spare Tire Mount |
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Hey All
have looked through 5 threads and haven't found answer to a simple question,
what are the dimensions of where to put the spare tire mount?
I can see from pix that is mounted underneath the center of the front air-intake-vents.....how many inches down?
_________________
1971 Campmobile Tin-Top
1971 Campmobile Pop-Top
1974 VW Bus |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Front Spare Tire Mount |
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| scubasteve321 wrote: |
Hey All
have looked through 5 threads and haven't found answer to a simple question,
what are the dimensions of where to put the spare tire mount?
I can see from pix that is mounted underneath the center of the front air-intake-vents.....how many inches down? |
The mounts of the period used the original holes for a 1971 emblem.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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alman72
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 2573
Location: MICHIGAN
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Front Spare Tire Mount |
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if you have your tires all sorted out for rating and performance, I would put the spare with the mount pre attached to the spare on your front bumper and see where it rests on the nose.
If there is a little wiggle on the mount-to rim when the nuts are not tight, lift the mount up then tighten. the idea is that if the spare is resting on the bumper all the time, when you need to remove it, it will lift just slightly up to pull it off the mount. I would think that having the weight of the tire on the bumper will help with less stress on the nose skin. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Front Spare Tire Mount |
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regardless there will be nose damage eventually from it being there. Water gets behind it, rust forms, dents happen - if one is Ok with that the front is a great place to mount it. I had one on my 1971 for a very long time, and many miles. I loved the extra space it created, but I do not have one on my 1977 for the reasons above. My 1971 was truely a daily driver at a time when parts were everywhere. My 1977 is a ten year old, almost two year restoration to like showroom, and I am not going thru that again.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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