vanagon 2.0L into Type 3

[t-royR]

I have a 69 fastback. considering putting in an engine with a little more umf! been told a vanagon 2.0 with a porshe 5-speed tranny would fit in nicely. True? if so, what do i need to consider when starting my shopping for engine and tranny? I have a local guy who rebuilds aircooled engines and want to know what i am asking for before i engage him.
Also, currently have a fuel injection setup. would I need a new computer and FI setup to match the 2.0L engine?

Thanks
It is either do this engine swap or start body work. engine work sounds more fun and rewarding!
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T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[raygreenwood]

For the most part....its just a type 4 engine....so its a good thing. However.....the way a vanagon engine has been set up....compression, cam, ignition curve and torque peak.....its effect on the lighter car...other than a bit more torque.....will not be ideal and can probably be matched by a highly tuned 1600 with injection.....and can for sure be bested by a stock 411/412/914 spec 1.7L type 4 engine.

I would give it a basic strip down ....check the bearings for any obvious high mileage or debris wear.....inspect the heads for leakage at the cylinders and lap if necessary, lap the valves.....and ALWAYS replace the cam and lifters.
It is the vanagon/bus cam profile that is not well suited for smaller/lighter cars with higher gearing.

Also it will give you a chance to check the deck and compression. Getting back up to better compression, will run cooler, give better mileage and better hp and torque peak for your application. Fixing lower compression can be as simple as removing a cylinder shim or gettimg rid of a step in the head sealing area if there is one.

If you are paying someone else the high dollars to install an engine....I would not do that with a used engine that has not at least bedn lightly gone through.....eapecially not one that drove around a heavy steel bread box with low gearing for an unknown amount of miles. Ray

[Multi69s]

^^^ what he said.

I don't know about the 5 speed, but when I started my Type 4 conversion, I purchased a running 2L. I was also given a "junk" 1700, to strip all of the guts out of so I could have a light engine for making my motor mounts. Afterwards I was to return any unused parts. I ended up keeping the 1700 case and heads, the 2L crank and rods, and picked up some 914 P&Cs. In my opinion, when doing the swap, the most important consideration is what type of intake system you plan on running. This will determine your engine height and how you build your motor mounts. If you plan on running FI I'm pretty sure that you have to swap out everything. There are also limitations on cams. However that is Ray's department, he knows FAR more about FI than I do.
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69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Retrovan]

Have fitted a STD type 4 engine with twin 34 ICT Weber carbs on short stem manifolds with an standard AS beetle gearbox but fitted an longer 4th gear.

Now my car tows, gets to speed fast, can play with the "KIDS" lights to lights, and she will run 120 KPH (75mph) all day long, that's our speed limit.

All you need to do is support the engine at the back with threaded rod as you have no mustache bar brackets.

The odd 5 speed box has the same final speed as the 4 speed box, only close ratio's between gears

Herman
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1968 Fastback Type 4 2 Lt. twin 34 ICT's (Red)
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc. twin 34 ICT's (Azur blue)
1975 Split Bus Type 4 1914cc. twin 34 ICT's (wh/aqua)
1972 Bay Panel-van with type 4 2 Lt. twin 34 ICT's (white)
2019 Beetle Flatbed Truck called MeFusco
1973 FT Hahn SP - Project 1776cc

[t-royR]

OK. Sounds like the vanagon engine is not the way to go.
So, for best value of my dollar, i could have this guy go through my current 1600 engine to shore it up and get the most of it, or invest in a stock 411/412/914 spec 1.7L type 4 engine?
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[Bobnotch]

[Multi69s]

[raygreenwood]

[t-royR]

Thanks everyone. I'll mention that I have an auto tranny now. Have thought about going manual. But, really like not having to shift.
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[raygreenwood]

[Bobnotch]

[t-royR]

Found a 914 1.7 L engine from a 73'. any thoughts on how good a fit that would be in my 69 fastback?
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[t-royR]

it is a 1700. not sure if it is 1.7L. came from a 914 or a type 4
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T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[Mike Fisher]

Build your 1600 into a 1776 with stock fuel injection & save yourself a lot of Type 4/used parts problems.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Multi69s]

Having an automatic trans makes the conversion SOO much easier. It will mate up to the trans with no modification. However, the bottom line is, what is the condition of the donor engine? Did you hear it run, can you do a compression check on it? Are there any repair receipts? If you can start with a good core, the rebuild cost is not that much more then a Type 3 / 1 style engine, since they are more robust. If you can start with a good core engine, and have the skills to install it yourself, you will be very happy with it. However, just like any used engine, I would tear it down, and take a look, and freshen as needed. If you don't mind me asking, what are they asking for the engine? Also, look for any numbers stamped on the case, and we may be able to find what it came out of.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[t-royR]

engine is $500.00. not installed in a car, so can't hear it run. looks nearly complete (no exhaust). It is fuel injected. Looks clean and owner indicates it moves freely by hand, and there is compression.
That is all i know, but the price seems pretty good, either way (roll the dice!)
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[Jason37]

I hope you do realize that it is not just a bolt in and go affair, as found on my own conversion. There are lots of threads on here with with conversions - Ray, Clatter, Angelo to name a few. Use the search function and begin reading.

There are a couple things you need to find or make first:

Rear engine hanger - bus works, but you have to make brackets to mount to the body.

Type 4 flex plate and hardware- uses five bolts in place of the gland nut

Cooling air intake - use a type 4 automobile (if you can find both pieces) or fab your own, the drawing should be on here somewhere

Exhaust - I went fill vintage speed headers and muffler, as I will be running a gas heater for heat. If you want to run heater boxes, you can read thru the last ten pages of Clatters black fastback build.

Fuel system - I will be starting with carbs, so I cut down some stock manifolds and welded them to get them to fit under the deck. If you are staying with injection, you will need to fab an air cleaner of sorts and possibly source the correct computer (not sure if a stock type 3 will work)

Based on what you have and what you can fab yourself, you could be looking at easily another $500-$1000 for the parts(depending on what exhaust you want) and if you have to pay someone to do the fab work, then the sky could potentially become the limit.

[t-royR]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I am trying to measure my likelihood of success with this upgrade. I am not a mechanic. But, i have been bringing barn-finds back to life for a number of years now. I can install an engine and go through the FI system to find and correct issues. I've pulled fuel tanks and cleaned; etc. all the stuff needed to get one rolling and running. I do have access to a professional welder at no cost (other than material). I also have time. The car runs fine now (painting it in the spring). So, i could work on the engine on a stand for a good 10 months, while I drive with the existing stock engine.

I do have a local guy who does nothing but re-build air cooled engines. Should i hit him up for cost of giving mine a re-build, instead of the 914 engine? I am just looking for a bit more gitty-up (and maybe some good sound coming out the back).
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T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv

[Jason37]

It’s a tough call, a lot of people choose the type iv for its reliability. For me that wasn’t a concern, living where I do, I might be lucky to put 5000kms on it a year.

[Bobnotch]