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RainbowManFan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 70
Location: Knoxville, TN
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: Headlights not working |
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| The headlights on my 72 Super Beetle completely stopped working the other day. Front parking lights and tail lights work fine. I checked all the fuses just in case and all were okay but I didn't really think that was the problem since none of the headlights are working on either high or low beam. When I attempt to click the dimmer switch just to see if the high beams were working, it does nothing either. I have been told it is likely the headlight relay. My question, though, is this: When I look at the headlight relays online, it says this as a note: "The relay MUST HAVE POWER to the #30 terminal to operate. If your wiring does not have a power wire to the #30 terminal a "jumper" wire can be run from the #56 terminal to the #30 terminal." My car does not have the red wire running the #30 terminal. First off, do y'all think the relay is my problem? And, any suggestions on how to run that jumper wire? |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12856
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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Do the windshield wipers work?
If not, then you likely have a bad ignition switch. VW used a separate circuit on the ignition switch to reduce demand on the electrical system when starting. This is considered the "load reduction" circuit.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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RainbowManFan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 70
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| Thank you so much. I have suspected for a while that my ignition switch might be going bad but I haven't checked the wipers since the lights went out. I will check the wipers as soon as I get off work and post an update. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31378
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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A 1971-on VW (USA) must have the ignition switch in the "run" position for the headlights to operate. The parking and tail lights work whether key is on/run or off position.
Just a reminder of something to be aware of.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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RainbowManFan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 70
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
Do the windshield wipers work?
If not, then you likely have a bad ignition switch. VW used a separate circuit on the ignition switch to reduce demand on the electrical system when starting. This is considered the "load reduction" circuit. |
Well, the wipers do work. Any other ideas? I am going to check the wiring more closely tomorrow to make sure nothing has come unplugged or loose. Thanks for the help. Please let me know if you have any other suggestions. |
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vwoldbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 1214
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| Do you have a test light or a volt meter and a repair manual with a wire diagram so you can start testing . It would be easier to help you . |
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VW_Jimbo 
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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Twist the fuses with the switch in the on position. Bethcha they start working.
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Twist the fuses with the switch in the on position. Bethcha they start working. |
With separate fuses for right/left and high/low- It would require tremendous coincidence to lose contact with all four at once.
Also, the car should have a white/gray striped wire supplying power to the relay- not red (according to the diagram in this site's tech section)
I'm betting dimmer relay. VW manuals as far as I know don't call it a light relay. If you lack any test equipment- you could (if you are creative and savvy) use the "58" output of your light switch to test the relay, by doing this:
1) Remove the battery ground- you are about to play with live feeds.
2) Remove one low beam fuse, one high beam fuse.
3) Unplug spade from parking light wire on switch at #58
4) Unplug spade from light wire (#56) and temporarily plug it into #58
5) reattach ground on battery
6) Test light switch. If lights don't come on- bad relay. If a light comes on and you can switch between high and low- bad #56 output of light switch.
Of course you have to redo everything back in reverse order- but you've helped nail it down.
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| hitest wrote: |
| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Twist the fuses with the switch in the on position. Bethcha they start working. |
With separate fuses for right/left and high/low- It would require tremendous coincidence to lose contact with all four at once. |
My response was from my own experience. After sitting for 20 years, ALL of the contacts surfaces had oxidation on them. I had to clean almost all of them.
FWIW, I was also in disbelief! Never had all fuses and ‘‘thus all headlight function, be nonexistent.
Easy check though, by just twisting a fuse! Easier than using a light pen!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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RainbowManFan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 70
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| Thanks hitest. I did see that the power is supplied to the dimmer relay from the black/light wire. However, in the diagram it looks like there are only 4 terminals on the relay and all the ones I seem to be able to find have 5. It says that there must be power to the #30 terminal on the relay or it won't work. As near as I can determine, the originals only had 4 prongs. Thus, it says that a jumper must be used between terminal 56 and terminal 30 or power supplied to the 30 terminal from the fusebox, thus the red wire which I was speaking about. I am just wondering about how is the best way to do this or if it is possible to find a 4 prong terminal. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| RainbowManFan wrote: |
| Thanks hitest. I did see that the power is supplied to the dimmer relay from the black/light wire. However, in the diagram it looks like there are only 4 terminals on the relay and all the ones I seem to be able to find have 5. It says that there must be power to the #30 terminal on the relay or it won't work. As near as I can determine, the originals only had 4 prongs. Thus, it says that a jumper must be used between terminal 56 and terminal 30 or power supplied to the 30 terminal from the fusebox, thus the red wire which I was speaking about. I am just wondering about how is the best way to do this or if it is possible to find a 4 prong terminal. |
In the US, VW only used the 4-prong headlight dimmer relays. These did not have a #30 terminal. This style relay only had power when the headlight switch was fully ON.
Outside the US, the 5-prong dimmer relay with the #30 terminal was more common. The #30 terminal had constant 12v from the battery (via the fuse box). This allowed an extra function not available on the 4-prong relays... "flash". As with most modern cars, when you pulled the turn signal lever the headlights will flash on/off even when the headlight switch is OFF. The constantly powered #30 terminal allows this to happen.
When replacing a 4-prong relay with a 5-prong one you have two choices...
1) Add a new (red) #30 wire from the fuse box to this extra #30 terminal. Now you will have the "flash" function even when the headlight switch and ignition are OFF.
2) Add a small jumper wire connecting the #56 terminal to the #30 terminal. Now when the #56 terminal is powered by the headlight switch the #30 terminal is also powered and the 5-prong relay will function exactly the same as a 4-prong. But since the relay is ONLY powered when the headlight switch is ON you don't get the "flash" function.
With many of these 5-prong relays the #30 terminal MUST be powered for the relay to operate at all. In some cases, it is actually current coming in over the #30 terminal that powers the headlights themselves. This is good because it will reduce the current flowing thru the headlight switch (allowing it to last longer). The current coming in on #56 just tells the relay to allow current to flow thru the relay. In other cases it is the current coming in over the #56 terminal that power the headlights.
If it were me, I'd go with the extra #30 wire from the fuse box. This gives you an additional function that you don't currently have. Make the new red wire at least the same gauge as the white/black wire coming from the headlight switch to the #56 terminal on the relay.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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RainbowManFan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2016
Posts: 70
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| Today I ran the wire from the fusebox to the #30 terminal. I can now get the dimmer switch to click like switching from bright to dim but headlights still do not come on. Do y'all think I am not getting power from the 56 terminal on the switch so it is a bad headlight switch? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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| RainbowManFan wrote: |
| Today I ran the wire from the fusebox to the #30 terminal. I can now get the dimmer switch to click like switching from bright to dim but headlights still do not come on. Do y'all think I am not getting power from the 56 terminal on the switch so it is a bad headlight switch? |
Break out your VM or 12v test lamp.
With the ignition ON and the headlight switch fully ON, test the #56 terminal at the dimmer relay. If there is 12v here then the headlight switch is working.
Next test the yellow wire and white wire coming out of the dimmer relay. With 12v going in on the #56 and the #30 you should have 12v output on either the #56a (F) or #56b.
Also test that the flasher relay has 12v out of the #56a (F) or #56b while you pull on the turn signal lever. The relay should click and also power one of the OUTPUT terminals. This does NOT require the #56 to be powered.
If the relay clicks but fails to have 12v on either of the OUTPUT terminals while the #30 terminal has 12v then the relay is bad. The whole purpose of having the #30 is to be able and power the highbeam circuit WHILE the turn signal lever is held.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6616
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not working |
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Get out a voltmeter and test the voltage at the lights. Then follow them up and test them on the fuse panel. Then test the other side of the fuse panel. Grounding can be an issue. I've had to clean up the grounds when I've had a similar issue with one light not working.
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