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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4799
Location: Bemidji, MN
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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looking at a closeup of your engine bay i see the following:
- you are missing the hose between the intake boot and your oil / vapor separator tower. that is a HUGE false air leak for your AFM. replace the hose or put a cork in the in intake boot and you may have found your problem.
- your distributor cap is dirty, plug wires are old. time for a new cap, rotor, plug wires.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
looking at a closeup of your engine bay i see the following:
- you are missing the hose between the intake boot and your oil / vapor separator tower. that is a HUGE false air leak for your AFM. replace the hose or put a cork in the in intake boot and you may have found your problem.
- your distributor cap is dirty, plug wires are old. time for a new cap, rotor, plug wires. |
Oh uhhhhh sorry, thats an old photo. I have a new cap/rotor/wires/breather hose. I just pulled that photo off my computer for a reference to the missing screw. I shouldve mentioned it!
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'81 Rabbit 2011-2013
'85 VanagonGL 2018
'84 Rabbit Turbo Diesel 2021 |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
Use a meter to check that the coax for the O2 sensor isn't grounded out, changing out the sensor will not fix this. Also problems with the O2 sensor tend to mean the sensor is actually working correctly, but there are other problems in how the engine is running that cause the sensor to give a wild reading.
There should be a plug over you idle mixture screw on the AFM to make it harder to tamper with. Can't tell from your picture what is actually there.
If you haven't yet done the full electrical diagnostic in the Bentley, now would be the time. Quick and easy to do. |
Yep, you're right, it's a plug. I spoke with the mechanic and he confirmed. For anyone else reading, I asked him if he thinks the #2 spark plug is causing issues and he said no. I asked him if he checked the idle control switch and he said no. I went ahead and adjusted it tonight. It had zero clicks so I turned it veeeeeeery little and it clicked at open throttle position and idle position. Made the very smallest improvement on idle though.
I was at my brother in laws tonight and I discovered he has heaps of tools, including electricians meters/computers to check wires. I asked him to check the o2 sensor's ground wire but he gave me this half drunk explanation about how any electrical problem would cause the van lights and ignition not to work... he insisted that I have zero electrical problems and wouldn't test it for me. What the hell do women know right? Guess he doesnt trust me.
The mechanic mentioned the fuel injectors... he said this might be it. Actually, he keeps mentioning the hole in my muffler (it's not that big) and says a new muffler will improve the van ($450 no thank you). For $60 shiny silver ones on GoWesty I am considering it. What do you guys think? I dont have access to check the ground wire on o2 sensor but I really dont think its the sensor. The van idled and ran smoothly before I replaced the fuel lines/did tune up/replaced o2 sensor/etc. I wish somebody in the LA area could come over and help me out but I reached out to two guys off of VanAlert and got no response. Welp, I'll be out in the alley again tomorrow, ha!
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'81 Rabbit 2011-2013
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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A simple Digital Multi Meter doesn't cost much at all these days, this one is $25 at Lowes, the quality seem excellent.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Digital-600-Volt-Manual-Ranging-Multimeter/50081424.
A hole in the muffler itself will not affect running much, but could be a safety issue depending on where the hole is. Hot gases could be causing damage to wires and hoses and maybe the paint, and it would increase the likelihood of Carbon Monoxide making its way into the cab.
I recently sucked it up and paid the nearly $200 for a stainless steel muffler from GoWesty. Assuming it isn't damaged in a collision it should be around for decades.
Last edited by Wildthings on Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| vwrhodie wrote: |
Yep, you're right, it's a plug. I spoke with the mechanic and he confirmed. For anyone else reading, I asked him if he thinks the #2 spark plug is causing issues and he said no. I asked him if he checked the idle control switch and he said no. I went ahead and adjusted it tonight. It had zero clicks so I turned it veeeeeeery little and it clicked at open throttle position and idle position. Made the very smallest improvement on idle though. |
I don't think the Throttle Position Switch would be your problem, but if you remove the wires from it, you will effectively remove it from the equation and in most circumstances not suffer ill effects. Easy to remove the plug(s) and to hook it (them) back up. When they were new you could set the TPS by ear, but with age it is best to use a meter, as they can click without doing anything. |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
A simple Digital Multi Meter doesn't cost much at all these days, this one is $25 at Lowes, the quality seem excellent.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Digital-600-Volt-Manual-Ranging-Multimeter/50081424.
A hole in the muffler itself will not affect running much, but could be a safety issue depending on where the hole is. Hot gases could be causing damage to wires and hoses and maybe the paint, and it would increase the likelihood of Carbon Monoxide making its way into the cab.
I recently sucked it up and paid the nearly $200 for a stainless steel muffler from GoWesty. Assuming it isn't damaged in a collision it should be around for decades. |
you think I could install a muffler in my driveway by myself without a jack? I can get some help. A brand new one for $200 isnt bad but its the 'labor' that makes me want to die. I was once charged $300 in labor for a master cylinder, and that was all...
I just bought brand new fuel rails from GoWesty. I wanted them when I first did the fuel line replacement but I decided to re-use my originals BUT-- dont laugh at me... I may have really nicked up a few of the injector nipples on the actual railing while cutting them off with my box cutter. The lines were extremely hardened and stuck. I think this may be my fuel line problem but I am not sure. I always say, "whats another $____ when I am $12k in?!?!?!?!" lol
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'81 Rabbit 2011-2013
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| There are two problems when dealing with the mufflers on these things. First the fasteners are going to be rusty as heck and not easy to change without having an Oxy-Act torch to use to cut the bolts out. Two, the hanger system for the 1.9 engines is pretty sad and breaks readily and is probably in need of repairs or replacement. Not sure what any one sells in the way of a kit for the hanger system, look on line at Van Cafe and Go Westy and see what they may off. It might work well to make a few phone calls to the normal Vanagon parts houses if you don't see anything on line. |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| There are two problems when dealing with the mufflers on these things. First the fasteners are going to be rusty as heck and not easy to change without having an Oxy-Act torch to use to cut the bolts out. Two, the hanger system for the 1.9 engines is pretty sad and breaks readily and is probably in need of repairs or replacement. Not sure what any one sells in the way of a kit for the hanger system, look on line at Van Cafe and Go Westy and see what they may off. It might work well to make a few phone calls to the normal Vanagon parts houses if you don't see anything on line. |
thanks. I will definitely take her into a shop for a new muffler asap.
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'81 Rabbit 2011-2013
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SyncroButter
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2016
Posts: 383
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Too bad your Brother in Law wasn't simply honest and said "Sorry, but I don't know how to do that" |
+1, sounds like your BIL doesn't have a basic understanding of electrical faults in cars and is too embarrassed to admit it. Buy yourself a decent multimeter (good suggestion from Wildthings), spend an hour teaching yourself how to use the most basic functions (voltage, resistance) and next time you see your BIL you can teach him too.
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In the stable: 1986 Syncro Westfalia/Bostig, 1989 Doka Tristar, 1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1973 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special
Gone but not forgotten: 1989 Porsche 944, 1973 Standard Beetle |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| SyncroButter wrote: |
| ... and next time you see your BIL you can teach him too. |
Don't even bother. It's really doubtful any effort to help the BIL understand anything would be appreciated in any way. People who are stupid enough to make shit up in order to 'cover up' their lack of understanding usually take it as a personal attack when someone tries to help them to actually understand the subject that they made shit up about. They are usually so caught up in the fact that you are exposing their stupidity that nothing can even get through their critical factor and they don't even have the capacity to learn anything in that situation. Just learn how to fix your own car and ignore the BIL entirely. |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| SyncroButter wrote: |
| ... and next time you see your BIL you can teach him too. |
Don't even bother. It's really doubtful any effort to help the BIL understand anything would be appreciated in any way. People who are stupid enough to make shit up in order to 'cover up' their lack of understanding usually take it as a personal attack when someone tries to help them to actually understand the subject that they made shit up about. They are usually so caught up in the fact that you are exposing their stupidity that nothing can even get through their critical factor and they don't even have the capacity to learn anything in that situation. Just learn how to fix your own car and ignore the BIL entirely. |
My sentiments exactly. He works as an electrician for the ports/refineries here in Long Beach but apparently has no idea about cars. My husband is the same way. They would be insulted to be taught anything from a female. My husband hates me working on my car... he even jumps on the opportunity to get mad when I make a mistake (isnt that a part of learning?). Meanwhile, I grew up with a single father and older brother so I am a little more say... adventurous? Glad I have all you guys giving me opinions/advice.
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HBB
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2014
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| vwrhodie wrote: |
| The van idled and ran smoothly before I replaced the fuel lines/did tune up/replaced o2 sensor/etc. |
I still don't understand why you are even looking at anything beyond the stuff you messed with at the outset. For that matter, I don't understand why any mechanic wouldn't start there either. I mean, it's not like replacing the fuel lines blew a hole in your muffler, right? |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| HBB wrote: |
| vwrhodie wrote: |
| The van idled and ran smoothly before I replaced the fuel lines/did tune up/replaced o2 sensor/etc. |
I still don't understand why you are even looking at anything beyond the stuff you messed with at the outset. For that matter, I don't understand why any mechanic wouldn't start there either. I mean, it's not like replacing the fuel lines blew a hole in your muffler, right? |
Muffler has nothing to do with it. My comment about getting a new one is because I simply want to. I am waiting on new fuel rails coming in the mail. I may have knicked them up quite a bit when I replaced lines. The real question is, what else can I check? My next step would be to pick up a meter to test the ground wire on o2 sensor but like you... I have a feeling I botched something during fuel line OR knocked something. I'm idling it my van right now... lord she sounds like complete shit but gotta swing by grocery store. Also, to help you understand, I wouldn't even call myself a mechanic... I am someone trying to 1) save money 2) learn a new skill. Not the sharpest tool in the shed like some. Working on that.
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Igeo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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Before going any further:
Verify firing order.
Do the power balance check to isolate weak cylinder(s).
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| vwrhodie wrote: |
| HBB wrote: |
| vwrhodie wrote: |
| The van idled and ran smoothly before I replaced the fuel lines/did tune up/replaced o2 sensor/etc. |
I still don't understand why you are even looking at anything beyond the stuff you messed with at the outset. For that matter, I don't understand why any mechanic wouldn't start there either. I mean, it's not like replacing the fuel lines blew a hole in your muffler, right? |
Muffler has nothing to do with it. My comment about getting a new one is because I simply want to. I am waiting on new fuel rails coming in the mail. I may have knicked them up quite a bit when I replaced lines. The real question is, what else can I check? My next step would be to pick up a meter to test the ground wire on o2 sensor but like you... I have a feeling I botched something during fuel line OR knocked something. I'm idling it my van right now... lord she sounds like complete shit but gotta swing by grocery store. Also, to help you understand, I wouldn't even call myself a mechanic... I am someone trying to 1) save money 2) learn a new skill. Not the sharpest tool in the shed like some. Working on that. |
My MIL was a heavy lift crane operator while my wife and one of my SIL's have driven or are still driving heavy equipment for a living. |
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vwrhodie
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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| Igeo wrote: |
Before going any further:
Verify firing order.
Do the power balance check to isolate weak cylinder(s). |
already did this twice. mechanic claimed he did this as well. I found this today while installing the new fuel rails (that I probably didnt even need)...
both a cracked protective cover and MISSING fuel injector needle... everytime I think I have found the problem, its not it... so I wont get my hopes up but I ordered a new one that will be in this Wednesday... so I will be back and let you guys know what happens. Bought a few new gaskets as well. $55 + $4.
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11BC2
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017
Posts: 495
Location: Cool, California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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Oh, that’s no good.
Maybe time for a set of those fancy new injectors that someone’s selling here. |
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11BC2
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017
Posts: 495
Location: Cool, California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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Oh, that’s no good.
Maybe time for a set of those fancy new injectors that someone’s selling here. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Running poorly after fuel line replacement, Seafoam? |
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I just want to chime in that some people have the natural Ability to learn to troubleshoot stuff. I can tell you to ignore the folks who aren't respectful of your abilities, you are a natural.
Protect those hands with nitrile gloves always
Have you reached out to one of the mobile guys about taking some time to go over your ful injectors? That missing pinhole is definitely a problem
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