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HotStreetVw
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
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 Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| I have the solution to it all, just mount a wind mill ontop of the car to power the electrick motor spining the fan and add a air scoop for ram induction and another air scoop to feed the fan so it takes less amps to run,and when the speed is just right the electrick fan coupe be totaly powered by the ram air turning the electrick motor into a generator that sends power to the wind mill thus adding more propulsion and going faster!!! problem solved. |
With Jimbo’s attitude and the power of positive thinking, he can do anything. Except get me and a few others to invest in his perpetual motion machine.
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP |
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VW_Jimbo 
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9967
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| I have the solution to it all, just mount a wind mill ontop of the car to power the electrick motor spining the fan and add a air scoop for ram induction and another air scoop to feed the fan so it takes less amps to run,and when the speed is just right the electrick fan coupe be totaly powered by the ram air turning the electrick motor into a generator that sends power to the wind mill thus adding more propulsion and going faster!!! problem solved. |
Click! That was the switch in my head!
Mark, I think you got something within these words! Thank you! I will let you know after a few tests!!!!!!
Your awesome!
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Wreck wrote: |
| I play with RC aircraft , with the development of lithium batteries and brushless electric motors there are electric motors now available that will drive the fan e.g. 6 to 10 HP . These motors will need over 100amps on a 12V system . you need to fit a big amp alternator and then have an electronics expert make a speed controller that works off CHT . Not that hard . That way the fan speeds up with engine load when it is needed . |
Exactly! This is what me and the father in law are discussing. The variable speed control is easy with a crank pulley sensor counting revolution and a chip telling the servo how much to allow through the relay. Got that figured out and functional. It is the large amount of air that has to go through the system. That is why I was asking for numbers. Not speculation. There have been a shitload of advancements in electric motor dynamics. I have access to some decent stuff for low dollars. I am just in need of that cfm input. I think if one fan cannot
produce. Two separate fans directly above the heads may be a solution. Not sure if that has been tried yet. Kinda like an old Corvair setup, but above each head. Relocate the oil cooler with a fan as well and mount a high output alternator. The alternator could be any design already out there because there would be no fan attached to the front end of it.
Your right, I have done no research, this is why I am asking. I do not want to comb through several hundred pages of threads. I figure with the help of those that have tried and with the help of modern simulation software, I am certain I can get it done. Money and time are no issue. It is the fun of trying something that makes my wheels spin. I enjoy walking out to the edge of the waterfall and looking straight down, balancing on the slippery rocks! Wife says I am crazy. I call it living!
I do not care what the naysayers have to say unless it is good info. I understand that this has been attempted before - I do not care. What would Edison have done? Stop at the 10th bulb failure? Nope. He was looking for a solution, much like myself.
Wreck. To you sir. Thank you. I think I can get a CHT to input a data stream to a pcm to control the fan on/off Tim and blade speed. I will discuss with my electrical engineer and let him work his magic! Then I will get the software engineer (cousin) in the mix! Gotta love rocket scientist!
So anyone know the actual cfm numbers? |
Jimbo I looked at this a few years ago and thought of using 2 RC 120mm ducted fans , one for each bank , if you get your electronics expert to look at how the RC brushless speed controllers work it would be simple for them to come up with something heat related to change fan speed . These fans are most likely more efficient then an old design Type 1 fan and may not need as much power to run , trail and error is the only solution .
I wonder how many of the people that predict doom and gloom even know at what RPM the fan needs to spin to cool the engine ?( I'd like to know if you've got first hand accurate information) above that rpm you are just wasting HP . Dyno figures of a belt off compared to a belt on will normally be given at peak HP and high revs not a say at 4000 rpm where the fan is producing enough air to cool the engine under full load regardless of RPM . so maybe you don't actually need that much power with an efficient fan/motor combination . The only reason I haven't experimented with it is lack off time and making my own centre mount type4 upright shroud that cools evenly which I've almost got right .
If no one was brave enough to try something different we would still all be living in caves ! |
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9147
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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Heres an easier solution. Water jacket the heads, and use squirrel cage fans to cool just the cylinders and oil. Or, just run a power pulley and 11.5mm belt.
brad |
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Volks Wagen
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
What would Edison have done? Stop at the 10th bulb failure? Nope. He was looking for a solution, much like myself.
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Edison would have hired scientists and engineers and researchers to come up with something. Then once he had a glimmer of possible success he would have got the heavy investor muscle behind it, advertised and marketed it and he would have patented his researchers work in his own name with a vague description of something before it was fully developed by the team. Then he'd try to suppress the competition and sell the patent while not really making the product himself. Edison was possibly the first inventor of 'Vaporware', but he certainly was not the first to invent an electric filament or light bulb, and I don't believe he was the first to patent one either. He tried to make a working bulb to suit his DC power grid. DC power grids died out in favour of his contemporary Nikola Teslas better AC power grid. So I suppose in a nutshell, Edison would cheat lie and steal ideas, then apply them to a failing system rather than admit that he was on the wrong track because he was a narcissistic fuckwit who had no respect for his fellow inventors. 
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3446
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| Has anyone calculated how big of an electric fan would be needed to push the volume of air the VW fan does? |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| Volks Wagen wrote: |
| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
What would Edison have done? Stop at the 10th bulb failure? Nope. He was looking for a solution, much like myself.
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Edison would have hired scientists and engineers and researchers to come up with something. Then once he had a glimmer of possible success he would have got the heavy investor muscle behind it, advertised and marketed it and he would have patented his researchers work in his own name with a vague description of something before it was fully developed by the team. Then he'd try to suppress the competition and sell the patent while not really making the product himself. Edison was possibly the first inventor of 'Vaporware', but he certainly was not the first to invent an electric filament or light bulb, and I don't believe he was the first to patent one either. He tried to make a working bulb to suit his DC power grid. DC power grids died out in favour of his contemporary Nikola Teslas better AC power grid. So I suppose in a nutshell, Edison would cheat lie and steal ideas, then apply them to a failing system rather than admit that he was on the wrong track because he was a narcissistic fuckwit who had no respect for his fellow inventors. |
What? Next you'll be telling us Henry Ford was a jerk? |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Throwing my belt at 7050rpms. Why? |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Has anyone calculated how big of an electric fan would be needed to push the volume of air the VW fan does? |
I think what you are hinting towards is that using a electric motor could allow the fan to be designed differently? which is true.
I don't know what kind of "bigness" you are speaking of, but broadly speaking it's 2hp worth of leaf blower. |
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