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MikeyM73 Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2016 Posts: 506 Location: Napa Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Sliding door rear roller question |
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Hi all,
Merry new year. My sliding door and hinge assembly seem to work fine, close fine (I usually push it closed rather than pull/roll slam it) and is very smooth but only when I pop it open it sags just a touch in the rear. My rear roller is smooth but it seems to have a "groove within the groove" if that makes any sense; as if riding on the body over the years has worn an additional groove in it. Is that common and how these rollers normally wear? I've read through the posts I can find about adjustment, refresh, lube, etc. and have read that the front lower roller assy is the main load carrying roller assy. but have found nothing for vertical adjustment of the rear roller. It seems logical that the rear roller carries part of the load when opened, correct?
Since I can't find any info on vertical adjustment of the rear roller assy, I'm thinking that replacing the rear roller on my door will eliminate my "groove within the groove" (presumably the cause of the less than 1/4" sag) and bring the door, when popped open, back to where it should be. Is that sound thinking?
At the end of the day, if I could adjust the rear roller, itself, down a touch it would push the rear of the door up to be just right and would probably close a bit easier than it already does.
Thanks,
Mikey _________________ '73 Pop-top Westy, found sitting in a field for 10+ years, cleaned up, rebuilt furniture, reloved. Original 1.7 block/fully polished crank, 93mm 1.8L balanced AA pistons & cylinders, new 1.8L balanced rods, HAM 42/36 heads, Scat C25 cam & lubalobe lifters, Dual HPMX40s, R2C filters w/ Outerwears pre-filters, functioning thermostat & flaps, Pertronix Flamethrower III, 4-1 exhaust w/ Cherry Bomb 2" turbo muffler & OEM heater boxes, averages about 19-22ish on the highway. |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1244 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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The rollers eventually wear through, break in two and the door falls off. True!
They are nice things with a roller bearing held by a circlip. Replacements I've had have been half full of ball bearings running in the aluminium. Total rubbish and not machined quite deep enough to fit a sealed bearing though so close it looked like cobbled together panic fullfilling of an order. Bearing won't fit, chuck in some balls. We haven't got enough - ration them out then and hope nobody notices. Ahhhhhhh!!!!! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51128 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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MikeyM73 Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2016 Posts: 506 Location: Napa Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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Thanks guys.. BD - I have seen that. So are you saying I can adjust the hinge/roller assembly vertically, a bit? If so, that would be stellar but I think I probably also need a new roller... sounds like it from what you said, Zed. _________________ '73 Pop-top Westy, found sitting in a field for 10+ years, cleaned up, rebuilt furniture, reloved. Original 1.7 block/fully polished crank, 93mm 1.8L balanced AA pistons & cylinders, new 1.8L balanced rods, HAM 42/36 heads, Scat C25 cam & lubalobe lifters, Dual HPMX40s, R2C filters w/ Outerwears pre-filters, functioning thermostat & flaps, Pertronix Flamethrower III, 4-1 exhaust w/ Cherry Bomb 2" turbo muffler & OEM heater boxes, averages about 19-22ish on the highway. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51128 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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Yes, do check the roller first, but if it's good then the carrier can be tilted slightly so the roller end is further down (door goes up).
Do the body lines and gaps look good when it's closed?, the rear striker may need to go down some as well if the door sits high when latched shut. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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MikeyM73 Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2016 Posts: 506 Location: Napa Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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Thanks BD.. that did the trick. The roller definitely needs replacing but only because of the 'groove inside the groove' thing. It rolls very smoothly but just that additional groove worn into it, me thinks. And yea, the body panels all look good, etc. when closed. But NOW, after that slight adjustment, the door simply pops out when I move the handle down instead of out and slightly down, making that 'thud' sound as the roller contacts the body guide- that nonsense is no more .
I think this will hold me over until I get a new roller on there. And it closes slightly easier, as well.
Thanks again! _________________ '73 Pop-top Westy, found sitting in a field for 10+ years, cleaned up, rebuilt furniture, reloved. Original 1.7 block/fully polished crank, 93mm 1.8L balanced AA pistons & cylinders, new 1.8L balanced rods, HAM 42/36 heads, Scat C25 cam & lubalobe lifters, Dual HPMX40s, R2C filters w/ Outerwears pre-filters, functioning thermostat & flaps, Pertronix Flamethrower III, 4-1 exhaust w/ Cherry Bomb 2" turbo muffler & OEM heater boxes, averages about 19-22ish on the highway. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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just to be sure here - if the roller is damaged, replace it. Every bus had one. If the sliding block is damaged or worn replace it. Both need to be good for the door to slide correctly. In addition the lower and upper rollers at the front of the door need to be good and free too. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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MikeyM73 Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2016 Posts: 506 Location: Napa Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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Thanks SG. From inspecting all rollers, etc. they all seem good and free - even the rear one except the rear one has that groove in it which means I will be replacing it soon. Actually, I'm surprised at how easy and effortlessly (relatively speaking) it does close. Like butta. A while back (after we rescued it from it's fate in a field) I lubed everything up on the doors that would normally need it but the slider had always dropped down, only at the rear, less than 1/4" with a 'thud' when opened but now, although the roller needs replacing, no more 'thud' and it doesn't take quite as much effort to make sure it closes.
To your point, there is a pretty deep groove inside the normal groove of the roller that rides on the body guide so I checked WCM and found the roller and nylon guide for 25 bucks. They're known for having quality parts so I just ordered up from them. Once installed, I'll readjust the roller height, if need be. _________________ '73 Pop-top Westy, found sitting in a field for 10+ years, cleaned up, rebuilt furniture, reloved. Original 1.7 block/fully polished crank, 93mm 1.8L balanced AA pistons & cylinders, new 1.8L balanced rods, HAM 42/36 heads, Scat C25 cam & lubalobe lifters, Dual HPMX40s, R2C filters w/ Outerwears pre-filters, functioning thermostat & flaps, Pertronix Flamethrower III, 4-1 exhaust w/ Cherry Bomb 2" turbo muffler & OEM heater boxes, averages about 19-22ish on the highway. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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MikeyM73 wrote: |
Thanks SG. From inspecting all rollers, etc. they all seem good and free - even the rear one except the rear one has that groove in it which means I will be replacing it soon. Actually, I'm surprised at how easy and effortlessly (relatively speaking) it does close. Like butta. A while back (after we rescued it from it's fate in a field) I lubed everything up on the doors that would normally need it but the slider had always dropped down, only at the rear, less than 1/4" with a 'thud' when opened but now, although the roller needs replacing, no more 'thud' and it doesn't take quite as much effort to make sure it closes.
To your point, there is a pretty deep groove inside the normal groove of the roller that rides on the body guide so I checked WCM and found the roller and nylon guide for 25 bucks. They're known for having quality parts so I just ordered up from them. Once installed, I'll readjust the roller height, if need be. |
super - when you take that door off be sure a friend or two is there with you. The glass adds a lot of weight and the size is awkward. Also be sure to really clean the metal runner - maybe even paint it if the paint is gone. You can tape under it and just paint that metal runner if you are concerned about over spray. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1244 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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For work on the rear hinge, instead of removing the door completely you can lift the rear off the track, swing it out a foot or so and sit the rear corner of the door on a chair with some padding to protect it. As long as you keep the door roughly square to the van it won't fall off. |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2736 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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Zed999 wrote: |
For work on the rear hinge, instead of removing the door completely you can lift the rear off the track, swing it out a foot or so and sit the rear corner of the door on a chair with some padding to protect it. As long as you keep the door roughly square to the van it won't fall off. |
I use a scissors style floor jack with padding, adjust the jack to suit, as my bus is lowered.
And although the door is heavy, its nothing like as bad as the engine to lift. It can be lifted out single handed by a fit person, provided you make sure there is a padded place to place it on and lean it on.
Its much easier with another person though, as if you let the back end of the door drop suddenly with the front roller still in the track, the front roller digs a notch in the track and for ever after you will feel it as you close the door. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1244 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Sliding door rear roller question |
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mikedjames wrote: |
Zed999 wrote: |
For work on the rear hinge, instead of removing the door completely you can lift the rear off the track, swing it out a foot or so and sit the rear corner of the door on a chair with some padding to protect it. As long as you keep the door roughly square to the van it won't fall off. |
I use a scissors style floor jack with padding, adjust the jack to suit, as my bus is lowered.
And although the door is heavy, its nothing like as bad as the engine to lift. It can be lifted out single handed by a fit person, provided you make sure there is a padded place to place it on and lean it on.
Its much easier with another person though, as if you let the back end of the door drop suddenly with the front roller still in the track, the front roller digs a notch in the track and for ever after you will feel it as you close the door. |
Agreed Mike. Getting the door right off single handed is something I've done many times as you can imagine. Getting it back on again is more difficult without hitting the paint with the bottom roller as it's rather hard to see where you're aiming with the door held in your out stretched arms, particularly the first time you try it. |
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