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Manfreds78bay Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009 Posts: 754 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Slammed, if your system isn't charging properly, you may want to go ahead and have your alternator rebuilt or buy a rebuilt one.
Trying to solve an internal issue in the alternator is beyond my skills.
It looks like yours has seen better days. _________________ 1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: B+ b+ tested as a ground |
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Slammed77bus wrote: |
I recently had the same problem somewhat . But as I touch the red wire to the positive on the batter it begins to spark. I used my test light to check and when I clip the alligator clip to the positive and then touched the b+ b+ bolt and the light turned on. That means it's grounded right? |
Right. It means there are shorted diodes inside the alternator.
With the alternator frame grounded and the regulator disconnected, connecting a test light from +12 volts to either B+ or D+ should NOT cause the test light to illuminate. If it does: shorted diodes.
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Before anyone says anything the Previous owners have the batter wires backwards. The RED is negative and BLACK is positive
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I'd fix that ASAP. Should you connect the battery backwards, even for an instant, you can kiss the alternator goodbye. All the diodes will be forward biased, and thus allow ridiculous amounts of current to flow. The diodes will instantly melt and short. Shortly after that, any interconnecting wire will overheat and melt the insulation. Sort of a catastrophic failure... _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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jj4356 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2010 Posts: 7 Location: St. Cloud, MN
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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I just love The Samba, major melting and some flames because of our short, 10 months after hooking the alternator up! I had no idea how it happened until now! |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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Shouldn't there be an insulator gasket round the alt and the tin backing? Also have seen that little square turned so it fits the curve of the case, not on just any way. There was an extensive post on here a year ago on every possible ways you can screw up this installation-- my turn came after carefully building a new harness and installing it with gasket- only to have the wires double back and eventually short out on the tin cover- ---so lesson is to pull the slack from the harness as you assemble the tin cover. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22640 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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There is no convention of red positive And Black negative, not to mention that POs Can put any Col our wire anywhere
Use firm Labelling to identify the correct terminals, not colour of wires. _________________ .ssS! |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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Uh, it's quite conventional for positive battery cables to be red and ground cables to be black, especially in the replacement market. Sometimes both cables are black. But having positive black and negative red is not right - just sloppy cable choice. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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jj4356 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2010 Posts: 7 Location: St. Cloud, MN
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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So mine was the large washer under it all arc'ing to the cover. It actually lit the alternator wire on fire. The odd thing is, this is after running for 10 months! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50337
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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jj4356 wrote: |
So mine was the large washer under it all arc'ing to the cover. It actually lit the alternator wire on fire. The odd thing is, this is after running for 10 months! |
The paint on the inside of the cover is a decent insulator, but once it wears though you have a high amperage short. |
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sherpa7200 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2010 Posts: 43 Location: Stanford, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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I'm getting ready to install a rebuilt alternator on my 1978 bus and am hoping to avoid the shorting problem. Any thoughts about the height of this post(it is about 1/2 inch tall from the base)?
_________________ 1978 Westfalia |
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sherpa7200 Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2010 Posts: 43 Location: Stanford, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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I didn't notice this until after I put the cover plate on, but the rebuilt alternator from Bus Depot has a huge crack in the side. I'll hold off on taking a hack saw to the post. The rebuild did come with the fiberglass tab over the washer.
_________________ 1978 Westfalia |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50337
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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sherpa7200 wrote: |
The rebuild did come with the fiberglass tab over the washer.
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It isn't just the fiberglass tab, but the larger than stock washer that can directly contact the cover. A smaller outside diameter washer or a washer with one side cut off can give the need clearance. |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2200 Location: seattle
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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sherpa7200 wrote: |
I didn't notice this until after I put the cover plate on, but the rebuilt alternator from Bus Depot has a huge crack in the side. I'll hold off on taking a hack saw to the post. The rebuild did come with the fiberglass tab over the washer.
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I'm not a JB weld guy, but I'd take the cover off, form a backstop of tin foil
& JB weld that gap. It's supposed to be an air-cooled alternator.
That or ask BD to do better. That's not a good core. : ( |
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alman72 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 2573 Location: MICHIGAN
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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sherpa7200 wrote: |
I'm getting ready to install a rebuilt alternator on my 1978 bus and am hoping to avoid the shorting problem. Any thoughts about the height of this post(it is about 1/2 inch tall from the base)?
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you are double nutted. IF you were keeping that unit, and before you cut your post, get rid of the bottom nut
edit- however, the square tab of insulation is not on the new one, so you want to source that |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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if you look at the photo from one of Telford's threads, you can see how to deal with the nut and washer.
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50337
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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[/quote]
I think this is actually the correct OEM diode plate, so no modification would be necessary. |
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BUSBOSS Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 2161 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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Could this grounding/shorting cause my Fuse #8 to blow intermittently and cut all power to the engine? _________________ All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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I have no clue. What does #8 power? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50337
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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BUSBOSS wrote: |
Could this grounding/shorting cause my Fuse #8 to blow intermittently and cut all power to the engine? |
The #15 ignition circuit was unfused from the factory, so if you are losing the ignition when the #8 fuse blows something is not wired according to the diagram and the #8 fuse is likely overloaded. The only things that were on the #8 fuse from the factory are the emergency flashers and the dome lights. You could use the #9 fuse for the ignition assuming it is free. You would want to use #12 wire and at least a 20 amp fuse, if not a step larger. |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3551 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! |
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I'd bet someone connected the black wire from the ignition coil to the wrong place on the fuse block. It should go to the busbar between fuses 12 and 13, along with the black wire from the ignition switch.
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When I make a new gasket for the alternator wiring cover, I leave internal tabs at both diode module mounting nuts such that they cover the nuts and washers, thereby adding insulation and helping to prevent shorts. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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