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Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help!
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Manfreds78bay
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slammed, if your system isn't charging properly, you may want to go ahead and have your alternator rebuilt or buy a rebuilt one.

Trying to solve an internal issue in the alternator is beyond my skills.

It looks like yours has seen better days.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: B+ b+ tested as a ground Reply with quote

Slammed77bus wrote:
I recently had the same problem somewhat . But as I touch the red wire to the positive on the batter it begins to spark. I used my test light to check and when I clip the alligator clip to the positive and then touched the b+ b+ bolt and the light turned on. That means it's grounded right?

Right. It means there are shorted diodes inside the alternator.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With the alternator frame grounded and the regulator disconnected, connecting a test light from +12 volts to either B+ or D+ should NOT cause the test light to illuminate. If it does: shorted diodes.

Quote:
Before anyone says anything the Previous owners have the batter wires backwards. The RED is negative and BLACK is positive
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I'd fix that ASAP. Should you connect the battery backwards, even for an instant, you can kiss the alternator goodbye. All the diodes will be forward biased, and thus allow ridiculous amounts of current to flow. The diodes will instantly melt and short. Shortly after that, any interconnecting wire will overheat and melt the insulation. Sort of a catastrophic failure...
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jj4356
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

I just love The Samba, major melting and some flames because of our short, 10 months after hooking the alternator up! I had no idea how it happened until now!
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williamM
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

Shouldn't there be an insulator gasket round the alt and the tin backing? Also have seen that little square turned so it fits the curve of the case, not on just any way. There was an extensive post on here a year ago on every possible ways you can screw up this installation-- my turn came after carefully building a new harness and installing it with gasket- only to have the wires double back and eventually short out on the tin cover- ---so lesson is to pull the slack from the harness as you assemble the tin cover. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

There is no convention of red positive And Black negative, not to mention that POs Can put any Col our wire anywhere

Use firm Labelling to identify the correct terminals, not colour of wires.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

Uh, it's quite conventional for positive battery cables to be red and ground cables to be black, especially in the replacement market. Sometimes both cables are black. But having positive black and negative red is not right - just sloppy cable choice.
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jj4356
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

So mine was the large washer under it all arc'ing to the cover. It actually lit the alternator wire on fire. The odd thing is, this is after running for 10 months!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

jj4356 wrote:
So mine was the large washer under it all arc'ing to the cover. It actually lit the alternator wire on fire. The odd thing is, this is after running for 10 months!


The paint on the inside of the cover is a decent insulator, but once it wears though you have a high amperage short.
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sherpa7200
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

I'm getting ready to install a rebuilt alternator on my 1978 bus and am hoping to avoid the shorting problem. Any thoughts about the height of this post(it is about 1/2 inch tall from the base)?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

I didn't notice this until after I put the cover plate on, but the rebuilt alternator from Bus Depot has a huge crack in the side. I'll hold off on taking a hack saw to the post. The rebuild did come with the fiberglass tab over the washer.


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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

sherpa7200 wrote:
The rebuild did come with the fiberglass tab over the washer.


It isn't just the fiberglass tab, but the larger than stock washer that can directly contact the cover. A smaller outside diameter washer or a washer with one side cut off can give the need clearance.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

sherpa7200 wrote:
I didn't notice this until after I put the cover plate on, but the rebuilt alternator from Bus Depot has a huge crack in the side. I'll hold off on taking a hack saw to the post. The rebuild did come with the fiberglass tab over the washer.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm not a JB weld guy, but I'd take the cover off, form a backstop of tin foil
& JB weld that gap. It's supposed to be an air-cooled alternator.
That or ask BD to do better. That's not a good core. : (
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alman72
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

sherpa7200 wrote:
I'm getting ready to install a rebuilt alternator on my 1978 bus and am hoping to avoid the shorting problem. Any thoughts about the height of this post(it is about 1/2 inch tall from the base)?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


you are double nutted. IF you were keeping that unit, and before you cut your post, get rid of the bottom nut
edit- however, the square tab of insulation is not on the new one, so you want to source that
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

if you look at the photo from one of Telford's threads, you can see how to deal with the nut and washer.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

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[/quote]

I think this is actually the correct OEM diode plate, so no modification would be necessary.
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BUSBOSS
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

Could this grounding/shorting cause my Fuse #8 to blow intermittently and cut all power to the engine?
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

I have no clue. What does #8 power?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

BUSBOSS wrote:
Could this grounding/shorting cause my Fuse #8 to blow intermittently and cut all power to the engine?


The #15 ignition circuit was unfused from the factory, so if you are losing the ignition when the #8 fuse blows something is not wired according to the diagram and the #8 fuse is likely overloaded. The only things that were on the #8 fuse from the factory are the emergency flashers and the dome lights. You could use the #9 fuse for the ignition assuming it is free. You would want to use #12 wire and at least a 20 amp fuse, if not a step larger.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Alternator wire to starter fried! Help! Reply with quote

I'd bet someone connected the black wire from the ignition coil to the wrong place on the fuse block. It should go to the busbar between fuses 12 and 13, along with the black wire from the ignition switch.

---

When I make a new gasket for the alternator wiring cover, I leave internal tabs at both diode module mounting nuts such that they cover the nuts and washers, thereby adding insulation and helping to prevent shorts.
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'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
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